22-250 vs 223

CV32 said:
Sure it does, if you think outside of the box. I shoot both of them, btw.



Actually, many sporting 223's are now offered in 1 in 9 or 1 in 8.



You can, but the bulk of the factory offerings still tend to be 1 in 12 or 1 in 14.
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All flaccid arguments for the gentlemen who are looking for a rifle to shoot coyotes that is effective and inexpensive.
If ammunition is a concern then rifle might be as well.
Under 200 yards there probably is little difference, over, the difference gets greater every yard.
Velocity kills quick, the more the better.
 
Velocity kills coyotes deader faster. If your going to be entertaining much shooting beyond 200 yards the .22-250 wins everyday. There is alot of air around a coyote. .22-250 makes the point and click work out to 300.
 
I have a 223,204 and 22-250 in the same model rifle. They are all Sako Varmint laminates with the 223 having an 8 twist barrel and the 22-250 a 14 twist. I put up the fur from most of the coyotes I shoot and I much prefer to skin the ones shot with a 223 over a 250. IME I can find no advantage in taking the 250 out with 55gr bullets as opposed to taking the 223 with 69-75 gr bullets. If I know the shots will be under 200yds I will use 50 or 55gr loads out of the 223 for the ease of skinning. All this being said I will still take my 204 with me 90% of the time and leaves the others at home.
 
medvedqc said:
lol ... dont tell me speed is killing ... seems you are not willing to educate me: a shame honestly ...
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medvedqc, I'd gladly educate you, but by "putting words in my mouth" and saying things like "wow", it looks like you simply don't agree with my initial comment. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

It appears, to me, that you have a military connection and favour the target prowess of the 5.56 / .223, which makes sense.

Now: With the higher velocity, the .22-250 shoots flatter and has more energy, at longer distances, than does the .223. This makes for the possibility of a cleaner kill at, say, 300 to 500 yards, if the shooter is up to the task. Judging the distance is imperative, as animals are not at predetermined distances, as are paper targets. This is where a range finder comes in. Clean kills are important to most hunters, even on coyotes.

FYI - I own one coyote gun.................a .223. I'm zeroed, in such a manner, that I don't need to hold over, out to 300 yards. Incidentally, 300 yards is my maximum, with said rifle.

Respectfully,
BF
 
I've had 3 22-250's loved everyone of them.
I never had the chance to use them at their full potential.
I had a 222 Rem. nice rifle [700 BDL]. Very accurate.
Now I have a 223 Remington in, [Weatherby], I just love it, it is accurate as hell. Really cheap to reload for.
This is my 1st Weatherby, it is the package deal one. [Lots of free casings.]
When I want to shoot really far I use my 243 Winchester. I have the Savage with Accutrigger.
With 55 grain bullets this rifle will flatten any coyote or wolf at unbeileivable ranges.
With 105 grain bullets it is sheer terror.
Just my old opinion.
 
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Bigfoot 870 said:
. . .

Now: With the higher velocity, the .22-250 shoots flatter and has more energy, at longer distances, than does the .223. This makes for the possibility of a cleaner kill at, say, 300 to 500 yards, if the shooter is up to the task. Judging the distance is imperative, as animals are not at predetermined distances, as are paper targets. This is where a range finder comes in. Clean kills are important to most hunters, even on coyotes.

FYI - I own one coyote gun.................a .223. I'm zeroed, in such a manner, that I don't need to hold over, out to 300 yards. Incidentally, 300 yards is my maximum, with said rifle.

Respectfully,
BF
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While its true that the .22-250 has greater powder capacity than a .223, and as a result can drive bullets of equal weight faster, that is only part of the story. A bullet has two velocities, it has a horizontal velocity and it has a rotational velocity. Over time the horizontal velocity decays due to the effects of friction with the air, but it's rotational velocity is affected much less by air friction, and at impact has slowed little from the speed it was rotating at, when it left the muzzle. Its uncommon to encounter a factory .22-250 rifle with a twist faster than 1:12, that is the bullet makes one revolution for each 12" of travel. A .223 that has a 1:7 twist will spin the bullet much faster, and so can stabilize longer bullets with higher ballistic coefficients, which will not stabilize in the typical .22-250. The fast twist .223 has been successful in 1000 yard matches.

Now, regardless of the game we shoot, bullet performance is the next most important consideration after bullet placement. The rotational velocity of the bullet is as important to the bullet's terminal performance on game as is it's horizontal velocity. A big game bullet for instance will penetrate deeper when spinning faster, because the precession (yaw) that the bullet experiences on impact is more rapidly recovered from with a higher spin velocity. A varmint bullet with a high rotational velocity becomes even more explosive as rotational velocity is increased, because the centrifugal forces tear the bullet apart with greater force a moment after impact. Even though a .223 bullet impacts with a lower horizontal velocity than the .22-250, the effect on the target, is also proportional to the spin velocity, just as it is to the impact velocity.
 
Boomer said:
While its true that the .22-250 has greater powder capacity than a .223, and as a result can drive bullets of equal weight faster, that is only part of the story. A bullet has two velocities, it has a horizontal velocity and it has a rotational velocity. Over time the horizontal velocity decays due to the effects of friction with the air, but it's rotational velocity is affected much less by air friction, and at impact has slowed little from the speed it was rotating at, when it left the muzzle. Its uncommon to encounter a factory .22-250 rifle with a twist faster than 1:12, that is the bullet makes one revolution for each 12" of travel. A .223 that has a 1:7 twist will spin the bullet much faster, and so can stabilize longer bullets with higher ballistic coefficients, which will not stabilize in the typical .22-250. The fast twist .223 has been successful in 1000 yard matches.

Now, regardless of the game we shoot, bullet performance is the next most important consideration after bullet placement. The rotational velocity of the bullet is as important to the bullet's terminal performance on game as is it's horizontal velocity. A big game bullet for instance will penetrate deeper when spinning faster, because the precession (yaw) that the bullet experiences on impact is more rapidly recovered from with a higher spin velocity. A varmint bullet with a high rotational velocity becomes even more explosive as rotational velocity is increased, because the centrifugal forces tear the bullet apart with greater force a moment after impact. Even though a .223 bullet impacts with a lower horizontal velocity than the .22-250, the effect on the target, is also proportional to the spin velocity, just as it is to the impact velocity.
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When you do the math the rotational energy does not work out to more than twenty foot pounds of energy. That being said there is still something to be said for it in relation to killing power. Extreme distance shooting a bullets that have dropped below 22 lr speeds seem to kill better than the lr. These are interesting studies in killing power.
 
From the Federal Ammunition website

55 grain Nosler Ballistic tip (b.c. 0.266-0.267) velocities (muzzle - 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 yards):
223 Rem. (5.56x45mm) 3240 2870 2528 2212 1918 1653
22-250 Rem. 3670 3263 2892 2550 2233 1939

We see that, in regards to equivalent Federal factory loads, the 223 has about the same velocity 100 yards closer as the 22-250 has at all distances within 500 yards. Therefore, I would say the 22-250 extends the effective range of the 223 by approximately 100 yards (at distances less than 500 yards) based on this data.

Other considerations between the cartridges:
-Ammunition/component prices and availability
-Barrel wear
-Recoil/Muzzle jump
-Noise
-Offered rifle chamberings (if you are buying production rifles)
 
Boomer said:
While its true that the .22-250 has greater powder capacity than a .223, and as a result can drive bullets of equal weight faster, that is only part of the story. A bullet has two velocities, it has a horizontal velocity and it has a rotational velocity. Over time the horizontal velocity decays due to the effects of friction with the air, but it's rotational velocity is affected much less by air friction, and at impact has slowed little from the speed it was rotating at, when it left the muzzle. Its uncommon to encounter a factory .22-250 rifle with a twist faster than 1:12, that is the bullet makes one revolution for each 12" of travel. A .223 that has a 1:7 twist will spin the bullet much faster, and so can stabilize longer bullets with higher ballistic coefficients, which will not stabilize in the typical .22-250. The fast twist .223 has been successful in 1000 yard matches.

Now, regardless of the game we shoot, bullet performance is the next most important consideration after bullet placement. The rotational velocity of the bullet is as important to the bullet's terminal performance on game as is it's horizontal velocity. A big game bullet for instance will penetrate deeper when spinning faster, because the precession (yaw) that the bullet experiences on impact is more rapidly recovered from with a higher spin velocity. A varmint bullet with a high rotational velocity becomes even more explosive as rotational velocity is increased, because the centrifugal forces tear the bullet apart with greater force a moment after impact. Even though a .223 bullet impacts with a lower horizontal velocity than the .22-250, the effect on the target, is also proportional to the spin velocity, just as it is to the impact velocity.
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I'm not sure why this was a response to my post.

I'd say it would be better as a stand alone post, to inform those who want to discuss the comparison, on a level that is much more than what a newbie coyote hunter, the OP, was looking for.
 
Won't single anyone out... but there are a lot of inexperienced folks on this thread standing firmly on their beliefs, which are based on a ballistic chart or calculator...
 
hoytcanon said:
Won't single anyone out... but there are a lot of inexperienced folks on this thread standing firmly on their beliefs, which are based on a ballistic chart or calculator...
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Hoyt, In the event you are talking about me (as you posted right after me), I was focused on addressing specific queries, without over explaining things. No one on here can prove their experience or knowledge and so long as they are being helpful and respectful, need not be judged. If it's become contest, to argue who "knows" the most, well, that could be the definition of infinity. Respectfully, BF
 
Bigfoot 870 said:
Hoyt, In the event you are talking about me (as you posted right after me), I was focused on addressing specific queries, without over explaining things. No one on here can prove their experience or knowledge and so long as they are being helpful and respectful, need not be judged. If it's become contest, to argue who "knows" the most, well, that could be the definition of infinity. Respectfully, BF
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I didn't notice who had posted before me... but in reading the responses, it is clear to those who have actually shot these two cartridges in various platforms in the field, which of the responses was written by someone quoting a chart... not pointing it at anyone specific... don't get flinchy... unless you would care to own it.
 
And we have come to the point that most of the "hair splitting" forum arguments eventually reach.

There is no argument that the .22-250 gets more velocity from any given bullet weight than the .223 can manage. The .22-250 is superior ballistically.

Whether that matters to most coyote hunters is the issue, and what "matters" is often linked to a limited number of experiential data points, ballistic mythology, and rationalization of past decisions. Once we get to that point the discussion always begins to "split hairs" and, in the worst cases, devolve into ad hominem.

I Love my .22-250 and it has never failed me when used properly. My brother-in-law Loves his .223 and it has never failed him when used properly. In our hunts together, not once has the decision about "who takes this shot" ever come down to which caliber would be used to take it. THAT is my interpretation of the OP's question. Pick one and learn to use it properly. But there is no real life reason to even have this argument. (Just like LOTS of other hair splitting arguments on this site. How about the .270 vs the .280 for an example.)

I'm going coyote hunting as soon as deer seasons end.
 
I do most of coyote hunting over calls shots are on average 30 - 100 yards in these cases there is no difference between my 223's or 22-250 but when a coyote is way out there or on a flat out zigzagging run I want speed and as flat of a trajectory as I can get so why would I limit myself?

This is the reason I have different rifles/barrels chambered in different cartridges to utilize the best cartridge available for the job at hand.

Is one better than the other most definitely but only due to the task I am using it for.

Only paper I punch is to work up a load then to practice different distances the rest of the time is in the field shooting.

Going to use my single shot T/C Contender carbine in 204 Ruger and single shot T/C Prohunter in 25-06 this year doubt it if I will even use either the 223 or 22-250.
 
+1^ Also, there's positives and negatives to whatever one chooses to go with. If you like the extra velocity but don't mind less barrel life, 22-250 seems like a great choice. If you don't need all that speed and want amazing barrel life (we're talkin hunting guns here) .223 is a solid choice. I've seen both kill coyotes with ease, it all comes down to knowing when to take a shot, and where it ends up. In your gun, with your load, in your hands.

If i like .223, you like 22-250. Who cares, lets go coyote hunting :)
 
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