.223 for everything, the gunnutz version

[cdn shooter]

I’ve gone through a fair bit of experimentation using different bullet construction, from mono’s to match. I can’t recommend match bullets or monolithic. Although my experience using match bullets were in .30 caliber, maybe the smaller caliber bullets exhibit better penetration.
I shot a mule deer at 330m with a 208gr A-Max and the bullet hit on the ribs and did not enter the chest cavity. It did however dislocate the shot side front leg and pretty much destroyed the meat in both front quarters. The skinned carcass looked like it was involved in a collision with a vehicle.
I’m still evolving on this but the classic cup and core, partition, bonded bullets seem to deliver the most consistent performance.

 

[Joel]

The monos we've been shooting animals with here have all done well. Not seeing any justification for a blanket "can't recommend" at all, tbh.

As for match bullets, it bears repeating that this thread really mentions a few in particular with a "not endorsing anything else" criteria attached and emphasis on real world results being excellent.

 

[KodiakHntr]

I shot a mule deer at 330m with a 208gr A-Max and the bullet hit on the ribs and did not enter the chest cavity. It did however dislocate the shot side front leg and pretty much destroyed the meat in both front quarters. The skinned carcass looked like it was involved in a collision with a vehicle.

Interesting. Got any pictures of that?
What do you mean by “dislocate”?

How much damage was done to the far side shoulder? Especially considering you indicated the bullet didn’t pass through the chest? How was there damage done?

Bullet trauma is always interesting to me, and if you shoot enough critters with enough bullets, you’ll see some weird #### happen.

 

[Mr.Rigpig]

Are you looking for the projectiles themselves, not loaded ammo?

Yes, just projectiles

 

[cdn shooter]

I didn’t take pictures of it no. The front leg was ripped out of the shoulder socket and both front shoulders were blood shot. The impact site had 2 ribs turned to dust but the membrane on the interior of the rib cage although blood shot and full of rib dust was intact.

 

[Mr.Rigpig]

Well look at that, Budget has 3 x 500 in stock.
I'm not willing to buy 500 just to try out though. If someone is willing to part with 50 or so to try I'm interested.

 

[KodiakHntr]

I didn’t take pictures of it no. The front leg was ripped out of the shoulder socket and both front shoulders were blood shot. The impact site had 2 ribs turned to dust but the membrane on the interior of the rib cage although blood shot and full of rib dust was intact.

Interesting. Don’t know that I have seen an offside shoulder bloodshot before that wasn’t hit by a bullet, but like I said, eventually a person will see some odd stuff when bullets hit meat.

 

[cdn shooter]

I shot 3 deer that year with the 208 A-max, 300wsm. The other 2 were closer so higher velocity. One had a 3” entrance wound and 8” exit. The other, the shot landed high vitals on a small bodied whitetail. The bullet impact sounded like a hammer on plywood. The entrance and exit holes were so large that it ripped through the top of the back.
There’s no question that match bullets kill fast, but meat damage is extreme. I can see the .223 being enough to get quick kills but without the extreme damage. But I would worry a match bullet might explode on the hide and not penetrate at all. If guys are getting good results on medium game though, that does speak for itself.

 

[KodiakHntr]

I shot 3 deer that year with the 208 A-max, 300wsm. The other 2 were closer so higher velocity. One had a 3” entrance wound and 8” exit. The other, the shot landed high vitals on a small bodied whitetail. The bullet impact sounded like a hammer on plywood. The entrance and exit holes were so large that it ripped through the top of the back.
There’s no question that match bullets kill fast, but meat damage is extreme. I can see the .223 being enough to get quick kills but without the extreme damage. But I would worry a match bullet might explode on the hide and not penetrate at all. If guys are getting good results on medium game though, that does speak for itself.

The individual bullet makes a difference. The .308” diameter Amax in 208 gr is shorter and has a shorter neck length, so penetration depth being shorter doesn’t surprise me.

The 105 Amax is long for caliber and penetrates deeper. Same as the 88 ELD’m.
Match stuff is definitely dependent on the nose and shank length for penetration.

 

[Joel]

But I would worry a match bullet might explode on the hide and not penetrate at all.

That may well be true for some of em, too!

 

[CamV]

Well look at that, Budget has 3 x 500 in stock.
I'm not willing to buy 500 just to try out though. If someone is willing to part with 50 or so to try I'm interested.

Pm me. I can part with a few

 

[broadhead67]

I stood 4’ from a good friend when he put a .243 in a very small Costal Blacktail at a range of 20’ ( that’s feet not yards to be clear) perfect shot right in the vitals . That tiny deer took off like a rocket and it’s only by chance we found it using the old - they head down hill to water rational . I felt a .243 was too small then ,Just because you can doesn’t mean you should .

 

[CamV]

I stood 4’ from a good friend when he put a .243 in a very small Costal Blacktail at a range of 20’ ( that’s feet not yards to be clear) perfect shot right in the vitals . That tiny deer took off like a rocket and it’s only by chance we found it using the old - they head down hill to water rational . I felt a .243 was too small then ,Just because you can doesn’t mean you should .

And what projectile was he using?
A .243 pencilling through the lungs is a whole lot different than grenading inside.

This isn't about the .223, it's about the .223 with the tmk or eldm.
There's a very large difference between a partition for example and a tmk/eldm

 

[Joel]

And what projectile was he using?
A .243 pencilling through the lungs is a whole lot different than grenading inside.

This isn't about the .223, it's about the .223 with the tmk or eldm.
There's a very large difference between a partition for example and a tmk/eldm

And what projectile was he using?
A .243 pencilling through the lungs is a whole lot different than grenading inside.

This isn't about the .223, it's about the .223 with the tmk or eldm.
There's a very large difference between a partition for example and a tmk/eldm

Wait...you're saying bullet selection matters?

 

[Hand Skills]

I think of it this way;

Headstamp stays inside the gun.

Bullet goes to target and does the work.

 

[CamV]

No pictures as buddy said "I don't want my ugly mug all over the Internet"
But buddy sent me a picture of a bull moose taken last Friday. Guessed 130 yards, actual 201. .223 rem with a 77gr tmk.
The tmk cut the heart in half, liquifying half. Went ten yards and flopped.
Yesterday I killed a 1200# steer with the same. Bang flop

 

[KodiakHntr]

I switched things up this year and strayed from the tried and true 223AI with 88 ELD m’s, and have been using a new 22 Creedmoor with 88 ELD m’s.

No surprises yet, but so far only a 6x6 elk at 101 yards and a big tripalm moose at 311 yards.
Maybe when I crash a big whitetail in the next few weeks I’ll figure out 22 centerfires are inadequate for deer.

 

[1899]

I stood 4’ from a good friend when he put a .243 in a very small Costal Blacktail at a range of 20’ ( that’s feet not yards to be clear) perfect shot right in the vitals . That tiny deer took off like a rocket and it’s only by chance we found it using the old - they head down hill to water rational . I felt a .243 was too small then ,Just because you can doesn’t mean you should .

My 10 year old shot a really nice whitetail buck with a .243 and 85gr Partitions in a VERY mild load - 33.0gr of IMR 4064. Performance was flawless and the deer went a very short distance.

 

[savagefan]

"Didn't go twenty". Congrats.

 

[toebako]

10yrs old! Thats a nice buck. Great shot too. This makes me think that a 223/243 is good enough for a ten year old and yet so many men would not use it. My son has the 223 t3x and tmk setup and after seeing what it does to elk I would use it for anything. Even bear defense. Because 18” of explosive penetration will get it done. He did not find the bullet but it was into the offside ribs at least. No tracking needed either. Tipped over in 30yards. We do the gutless and pack it out in packs. He did open the ribcage and take some pics and the carnage was like my 300win mag with a softer bullet. Soup.
I just got a 308win and think I have an elephant gun and need a 223/22arc. The bullet is everything. Anyone not sure on the abilities of this 223/tmk combo should take a wander over to rokslide and check it out. The elk and moose just keep piling up.
And if you don’t like it then keep using what you got. Use your freedoms before it’s taken away.