25-06: tell me about your game taken

[Johnn Peterson]

Hi Ardent,

Since our conversations regarding the Ruger Magnum rifle - and in particular the one I had planned to buy in .375 H&H I have acquired a Browning A-Bolt in this caliber. It's what I can afford right now, and has proven both very accurate and a delight to shoot. I've loaded up some 260 grain Nosler Partitions at near max velocity and have been delighted to find they shoot into an inch or less at 100 yards reliably.

So, I've been carrying nothing but this rifle/load combination this fall whether I've been hunting Whitetails or Moose/Elk. So far, the only thing I've had a chance to shoot with it this season is paper.

In any case, I too intend to see just very versatile the .375 H&H can be as an "all around" system.

That said - I want a 25-06 as a coyote rifle in the worst way!!!
Jeff.

When on a visit to see the 'Kids' in AB, after finding out how well their 22-250 Savages performed, the same in 25-06 was what I opted for. I'm still hoping to try it out on the island on Wolves if possible but so far, all I've done is punch paper with it. I've posted this previously, it's a Savage 112BVSS in 25-06, and I've topped it with a Leupold VX-III, 6.5x20 Long Range with Varmint reticle.

And considering the dollar value of the rifle, good bang for the buck. It shoots well.

 

[Ardent]

Glad to hear Jeff, enjoy the .375, it's the perfect hunting rifle and can take you many places. My friends in Africa use it even for game smaller than coyote and think it's just the right rifle for it, only here do we need a different rifle for every species!

1899, I'm enjoying this line of thought, you are very right that in Canada, things are a bit different and this thread certainly centers on Canada. At the same time, animals are animals, and while the African variety will stun you with their ability to soak up seemingly perfect hits they're made of the same stuff, just thicker. You're right, no argument that deer and black bear as you mention are very soft, my objection to the .25-06 only begins when we're talking Elk and Moose. It is by no stretch an Elk or Moose cartridge, even if used successfully. On a perfect shot, if my .250 was all I had and a 7x7 wandered out into the field on my acreage at 90 yards and I had TSXs loaded, I'd take the broadside shot. But only if my .375 was at home up north, or I ran out of .375 cartridges, etc. I don't wish to condemn guys choosing to use it on big game, but at the same time, there are better choices no question. The OP is lucky he didn't meet his Elk with a .357 Mag in my estimation.

Finally, you've said something I agree with 100% and reflect on often. Things have changed even though the animals haven't, I believe the concern with clean kills and terminal ballistics is a modern thing. My own grandfather would shoot at a moose until it dropped with a .30-30 and the cheapest cartridges on the shelf, four or five rounds wasn't considered odd. Africa was even worse, see the article below (removed, too long, and too much of a hijack!) detailing the death of the largest land mammal known from non-prehistoric times, a bull elephant shot in Angola in 1955 that weighed 24,000lbs. That's 10,000lbs larger than the heavy end of the estimates of T-Rex's size as an aside. The poor thing was riddled with poorly placed shots, sixteen rounds in total, over hours and yet it was all still covered by Sports Illustrated in 1958 as fantastic hunting. Still a great tale, but yes, we are a lot more concerned today with ethical and quick kills than in times past, right in stride with political correctness and safety culture at the workplace. Everything's becoming 'tighter', in hunting, I don't see that as a bad thing unless it goes too far.

 

[Jeff/1911]

Johnn,

That's great accuracy from your Savage. I'll keep that in mind.

Jeff.

 

[Cinch]

You haven't actually shot many moose in Saskatchewan, have you.

It actually sounds like you haven't hunted much in Sask. either. In over 50 years of living and hunting in Saskatchewan, I have almost never ended up with a dead game animal in the middle of a stubble field. You need to get out and go for some walks in Saskatchewan.

Listen old timer, if you are incapable of communicating your position in a civil and compelling manner rather than resorting to name calling and petty insults I would suggest you shut the f**k up as your behaviour is consistent with someone 1/10 your age.

 

[rral22]

Listen old timer, if you are incapable of communicating your position in a civil and compelling manner rather than resorting to name calling and petty insults I would suggest you shut the f**k up as your behaviour is consistent with someone 1/10 your age.

Well, that certainly addressed the issue. Well argued!

Nothing but complements for that post.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Johnn,

That's great accuracy from your Savage. I'll keep that in mind.

Jeff.

Yes, on the initial try out it suprised the h**l out of me. It's the first time ever that I started working up loads and got that level of results right from the 'get go'. On a 'shopping' trip at P&d I picked up a selection of five or six different bullets but never got past the Sierra 117gr. The first handloads I put through it were 'shooting dimes' so the load testing ended there. Most often than not, it takes me a while to get the desireable or acceptable results.

 

[captonion]

There once was a man named Roy Weatherby who hunted in Africa with a 257 Weatherby...Why? Because he could, and why not?

Since goining to Africa has become more affordable than many Norh American Elk/Moose/sheep/goat packages I have been doing alot of pondering to take the leap...Was thinking about this year but my hunting partner broke his leg in a bad way just below his knee...So it has given me time to think about what I should take on my hunt (if I indeed go). I have a Ruger in 375 Ruger that I would be taking for sure. The other (main rifle) will be a Rem 7600 in 35 Whelen... This is what I would plan on taking most of the game with. Would love to take my 7600 in 25-06 for antelope/Elan, and maybe even wart hog, but taking three rifles just seems to be too much. We will see!

 

[Ardent]

Have fun, it'll be the hunt of a lifetime if you do it right, and a real waste of money if done wrong- my advice is to avoid South Africa. There is very little true free range hunting there, and hunt farms (which are huge in their defense, and free range in their own little ecosystem really) can really tame the experience of Africa in a hurry. Zimbabwe and Zambia have some of the last good wild areas, and I'd highly recommend you check out the former if you have a little taste for adventure and a budget, and the latter if you have no budget and want the experience of a lifetime.

A .25-06 is way, way too small for Eland, I sincerely doubt any PH would let you shoot one with it aside from a South African hunt farm, even there it's not likely. It's totally unfair to the animal, an Eland is the size of a Bison, can be over 2,000lbs for a good bull. Even other antelope like a Wildebeest can shame Elk. Do yourself and the animals a favour and leave the .25 at home, has no place in Africa. Roy Weatherby did it because he was pushing a product- his won product. Doesn't mean it was a good idea. The .375 Ruger's the only rifle you'd need to bring, and perfect for the job. If you're going, I'd suggest Dangerous Game and take a Cape Buffalo, that's where Africa really starts to come into its own in my opinion.

 

[Ardent]

And some god-honest quotes from Roy Weatherby himself, he was an eccentric with money and a product to push. Whenever someone references, "Roy Weatherby took a .257 to Africa..." I have to exhale in defeat.

A 1951 Gun Digest article: "It doesn't matter whether you shoot (a game animal) in the ham, the ribs, the paunch, or the shoulder; you do not have to hit the heart, the lungs, or the spine in order to kill when using a bullet that disintegrates inside his body. I recommend you try a .25-caliber bullet travelling at 4,000 fps to shoot your next game animal, whether it be deer, moose, or African buffalo."

"I shot him with my .257 Magnum, hitting in the front leg only, high toward the shoulder ... nothing can withstand the shock of high velocity bullets, even when not hit in a vital spot."

A 1948 diary entry: "I'm disproving all my own theories"

...he also shot a Cape Buffalo four times in one episode and ultimately it was not recovered. Bet you anything he didn't mention all the animals he crippled, either.

 

[Hodaka]

Hey all, I'm back! I am still reading with interest.
Let me re-visit my reasoning:
- I am mostly hunting deer.
- I am trying to keep reasonable re-coil.
What I did not mention is:
-I like to go to the range and fire off a couple dozen rounds
-I have a bit of a bad shoulder already. Last time I took my 12g out, (2.75" 1.25 rounds- 10 or so total) my muscles took about a month to recover. No doubt partly because the recoil pad is quite thin, but you get the drift. I have a condition where my pectoral muscles and shoulder in general are seriously knotted (from work), and shooting heavy recoil actually loosens them up a bit, but I pay for it. Currently, I can fire about 100 rounds from the 357 without any real bother.

Many points well taken. Ardent: I didn't really want to see an elk either, but my friend- a much more experienced hunter than I- insisted it would be OK. While I will never be hunting African game, or really any dangerous game, I seem to be re-thinking. I either need to go bigger, and balance my loads against the game/range use, or buy two guns. As has often been stated here, you can never have too many guns!

 

[captonion]

Bet you anything he didn't mention all the animals he crippled, either.

Nor do the mojority of hunters who make bad shots.

Since I plan on plains game, I am totaly confident I can do it all with a 7600 in 35 Whelen, I would also be taking the 375 Ruger just incase upon seeing whats,what changes my mind....

A friend who has been on many African safaris did most of his hunting there with a 7mm Imperial Mag, and some with his 360 Imperial Magnum...When I expressed my plans to do plains game with a 35 Whelen, he seen no issue with it..

 

[captonion]

Hey all, I'm back! I am still reading with interest.
Let me re-visit my reasoning:
- I am mostly hunting deer.
- I am trying to keep reasonable re-coil.

A 25-06 will do everything you will ever need it to do...Easy choice from reading what you require.

 

[Ardent]

I'm all for your .35 Whelen, a great cartridge, .25-06 was the one you mentioned up to Eland and had me grumbling.

 

[RickF]

The pattern here is that those who have actually used the 25-06 say it is fine. Those who haven't used it feel differently.

Between the 25-284, 25-06 and 257 Wby I have taken several deer and two elk. I have hunted moose while carrying a 25 but they haven't cooperated. I have used 100 Barnes bullets in most cases. They kill as fast as the larger magnums do if you hit where you are supposed to.

 

[dthunter]

Good discussions guys.

I Agree that bigger bullets/cart. Will put the bigger animals down quicker (normally).
Its just that I feel that we as hunters tend to relate the single/or two ,best responses of an animal being shot to support our arguement/debate. Thats understandable.

I personally submit a thought that few people seem to mention.
an animal is an individual, subject to physical strengths and temperments.
Lets not forget that some animals, by virtue of emotional/instinctual attitude will be very hard to knock down "regaurdless" of caliber.

A good friend of mine related a factual story, of a personal friend of his, who shot a Cape Buffalo with a massive cartridge! I donot remember the caliber or cartridge name, but the bullet weighted 2000 grains. And traveled about 1500 fps.
OUCH! Wouldnt catch me pulling the pin on that piece of artillery! Lol!

The bull was totally unaware of his presence, and still, with a well placed shot (lungs/heart), the bull ran 75-100 yards before going down for good.

You cant hit em harder than that! In that spot. And some critters just have more "stuff".
We are all subject to the animals response. I have seen many Cape buffalo drop dead with that shot, with a .375H&H. And the. 375H&H has nowere near the energy as that cannon.

My thoughts are, simply, shoot as big a rifle as you can competantly handle, and be very particular about your shot placement. Reguardless of caliber. Shot placement is a hunters biggest responsibility, much more than caliber considerations. Using common sense and logic to guide us on caliber/cart. Choice.

And what happens after the shot, just happens. Deal with the results accordingly, as best we all can.

Take care you gunnutz!
Keep it fun!

 

[1899]

Since I plan on plains game, I am totaly confident I can do it all with a 7600 in 35 Whelen, I would also be taking the 375 Ruger just incase upon seeing whats,what changes my mind....

...When I expressed my plans to do plains game with a 35 Whelen, he seen no issue with it..

That's because the .35 Whelen is a 9.3x62 jr.


Another way to look at it is a hopped up 9x57mm - from African Hunter:

The ballistics of the 9mm Mauser are somewhat confusing, as there were a number of bullet weights available and two distinctly different load levels. Bullet weights available ranged from 205 grains up to 281 grains, but the standard Kynoch loading (and the one which established this cartridge's reputation) was a 245-grain round-nosed bullet (available as a solid or a soft-nose) at 2150 feet per second. Other factory ammunition was loaded somewhat hotter, particularly the German DWM sporting ammunition, which offered a 247-grain bullet at an alleged 2310 feet per second. Under Zimbabwe's National Parks regulations the 9mm Mauser fits quite happily in the calibres suited for Class 'C' animals (general big game), which includes Kudu, Zebra, Sable, Waterbuck and the like.

I've never owned a .35 Whelen, but would really like to one day (right now I have come full circle and am back to liking the .338 Win Mag). I'd consider using a 280gr Swift A-Frame, or maybe a Woodleighs 275 or 320gr soft points. Those should be fantastic on just about anything.

 

[RickF]

I'll just add that if you aim for bone, a lot of cartridges are decisive especially with a premium bullet. Conversely, if you think a hole in the lungs is the spot, don't be surprised if a larger animal like a moose or elk (or cape buffalo it seems) runs a ways before they decide to tip over.

 

[brybenn]

2000gr at 1800fps is roughly 15000ftlbs of muzzle energy. Hollands 700 nitro makes only 8900ftlbs at the muzzle. I'd love to see the action strong enough for that caliber you mention and would love to meet the man capable of shouldering and firing such a weapon

 

[dthunter]

Just a note

2000gr at 1800fps is roughly 15000ftlbs of muzzle energy. Hollands 700 nitro makes only 8900ftlbs at the muzzle. I'd love to see the action strong enough for that caliber you mention and would love to meet the man capable of shouldering and firing such a weapon

If you look at my post I editedthe velocity of the cart.
It was my mistake. No big deal. Consequently, the foot/lbs works out to 9700.
Still silly brutal!

The gentelman who shoots this cannon happens to be what I would call a master gunsmith.
My friend "Bevan King" is the gentelman who told me about this fellow.
Bevan also showed me the video that the guy made as he made the rifle from scratch.
It wad a double rifle to boot.
Incredible!
The finished double was stunning! He is very talented!


And as mentioned, I would never even think of shooting that monster!

 

[dthunter]

Claification

I'll just add that if you aim for bone, a lot of cartridges are decisive especially with a premium bullet. Conversely, if you think a hole in the lungs is the spot, don't be surprised if a larger animal like a moose or elk (or cape buffalo it seems) runs a ways before they decide to tip over.

I am not sure you picked up what I was trying to say. I dont explain myself clearly at times. Or people dont READ what I say. Sometimes both, lol!
Every animal reacts differently to a bullet. We cannot controll thier individual reactions.
I used the cape buffalo shot as an example of how some smaller calibers (.375H&H, was this example) (lol! Seems strange to consider that small in comparison!)have knocked down the big stuff effectively.
There is no, and will never be a cartridge of shoulder fired variety that will knock down 100% of all animals, all of the time. Thats my point.