25-06

[pete dobinson]

As much as I despise the 260 I think if it's a long range affair the 260 trumps the 25/06 based on high BC bullets.

How many guys build LR 25's?

For hunting I'd say it's a tossup. Whichever floats your boat is the one to use.

In that case go with a 6.5-284

 

[Jordan Smith]

May as well go straight to a 7mm-08 or a 7mm-08AI and run the 162gr A-Max at 2750+fps if you're looking for a long-range rig.

 

[stubblejumper]

May as well go straight to a 7mm-08 or a 7mm-08AI and run the 162gr A-Max at 2750+fps if you're looking for a long-range rig.

The A-max with a BC of .625 at 2750fps,offers no advantage over the 139gr Scenar with a BC of .615 at 2830fps.

 

[todbartell]

I have some Barnes 115gr flat base triple shock but I haven't tried them yet.

I'm a little curious as to what you've stated, about needing a specialized twist. The 25-06 Remington - 1 in 10" in the following;

• Remington 700, 40-XB.
• Ruger # 1 and 77.
• Browning.
• Sako.
• Winchester 70.
• Savage 110, 112.
• Thompson/Center Rifle

I was reffering to a hypothetical 120gr TTSX 257". Such a bullet doesn't exist, likely because most 25 caliber rifles would not be able to stabilize it. Barnes make a 115gr TSX and recommend a 1:9 twist. A 120gr TTSX would likely require a 1:8 twist in 257", the same bullet in 6.5mm/260 works just fine in a standard 1:9 twist.

comparing a 115gr TSX (best it can do) in 25-06 vs 120gr TTSX in 260 you'll see the 260 pulling way ahead as the distance increases, despite burning less powder and all other good things

I dont do much killin with match bullets like Bergers, so this comparison means a bit more in the real world

25-06 115gr TSX @ 3100 fps
250y zero = -15.5" @ 400y, 2100 fps, 1130 ft lbs, 15" drift

260 120gr TTSX @ 2975 fps
250y zero = -15" @ 400y, 2250 fps, 1350 ft lbs, 11" drift


fits in a short action too

 

[todbartell]

favorite bullet a Partition?

25-06 120gr Partition @ 3050 fps
250y zero = -15" @ 400y, 2200 fps, 1300 ft lbs, 12" drift

260 Rem 125gr Partition @ 2900 fps
250y zero = -16" @ 400y, 2180 fps, 1300 ft lbs, 11" drift


like Swifts?

25-06 100gr Scirocco @ 3300 fps
250y zero = -12" @ 400y, 2490 fps, 1375 ft lbs, 10" drift

260 Rem 130gr Scirocco @ 2850 fps
250y zero = -15" @ 400y, 2280 fps, 1500 ft lbs, 9" drift


^ and somehow it does it with 10 grains less powder! and only drops 3 more inches @ 400 yards despite exiting the muzzle 450 fps slower!

 

[Gatehouse]

Not your first 25-06vs 260 rodeo, eh Bartell?

 

[todbartell]

no doubt the 25-06 is a great cartridge
but the 260 takes all its positives and puts it in a better, more practical package
with more versatility

25-06 = 22-250 w/ 1:14 twist. 260 = 223 AI with 1:8 twist

you end up getting more, for less

 

[220Swifty]

6.5-06 trumps them both.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

[/LIST]
I was reffering to a hypothetical 120gr TTSX 257". Such a bullet doesn't exist, likely because most 25 caliber rifles would not be able to stabilize it. Barnes make a 115gr TSX and recommend a 1:9 twist. A 120gr TTSX would likely require a 1:8 twist in 257", the same bullet in 6.5mm/260 works just fine in a standard 1:9 twist.

comparing a 115gr TSX (best it can do) in 25-06 vs 120gr TTSX in 260 you'll see the 260 pulling way ahead as the distance increases, despite burning less powder and all other good things

I dont do much killin with match bullets like Bergers, so this comparison means a bit more in the real world

25-06 115gr TSX @ 3100 fps
250y zero = -15.5" @ 400y, 2100 fps, 1130 ft lbs, 15" drift

260 120gr TTSX @ 2975 fps
250y zero = -15" @ 400y, 2250 fps, 1350 ft lbs, 11" drift


fits in a short action too

For the most part, comparing and making judgements on one caliber with the next one or diameter larger is always like making a comparison of apples and oranges. But doing so, in all fairness about the closest you can come is making that comparison on a basis of the same weight for both. Forget the 'hypothetical' and go with something real to both, say, the Sierra 100gr or the Sierra 120gr for both calibers.

In addition, if the 120gr Sierra is accurate and therefore stable out of my 25-06 with its 1 - 10" twist, I see no reason why a 'hypothetical' Barnes 120gr TTSX, if it existed, wouldn't also be accurate.

 

[NolanOsborn]

Seems that I have opened a can of worms. I could very well just choose the .270

 

[Jordan Smith]

todbartell,

First of all, why would you be using a TSX for a long-range bullet? It's about there is for a high-velocity, close-to-medium range bullet, but not at all for long range. I've worked up 2 loads in my hunting rifles, each of which have matching POI's between the 2 loads. I load a TSX/TTSX for 400 yards and under, and something like an A-Max or a Berger or a MK for over 400 yards.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, once again, but I get significantly different ouputs in JBM. When put the 115gr TSX at 3100fps vs. the 120gr TTSX at standard atmosphere, at sea level, with 10mph crosswind, 200 yard zero for both, I get 6.8" of drift for the .25-06 and 12.2" for the .260 at 400 yards. The 120gr PT drift 7.9", and the 125gr PT 12.4" at 400 yards.

I'm not concerned with bullet drop or RE whatsoever. I'm simply concerned with the bullet having sufficient velocity upon impact for expansion, and the old devil called the wind.

.25-06 wins every time, BUT it burns more powder doing so.

 

[stubblejumper]

First of all, why would you be using a TSX for a long-range bullet? It's about there is for a high-velocity, close-to-medium range bullet, but not at all for long range. I've worked up 2 loads in my hunting rifles, each of which have matching POI's between the 2 loads. I load a TSX/TTSX for 400 yards and under, and something like an A-Max or a Berger or a MK for over 400 yards.

Did you forget that you posted:

I thought we were talking hunting bullets, here

The A-MAX and MK are no more hunting bullets than the Lapua Scenar that I brought up earlier in this thread is.

I load one hunting load for each rifle,and learn that load.I am certainly not going to carry multiple loads while on a hunt,then start unloading and loading my gun if an animal appears at a different range than I anticipated.As for the 25-06,if I was using the TTSX,I would choose the 25-06 over the 260 anytime.The increased muzzle velocity more than makes up for the slightly increased BC of the 260 while using the TTSX.

On the other hand,if I was also using the rifle for target shooting,the increased barrel life,and superior long range target bullets that are available,would make the 260 more attractive.

 

[Jordan Smith]

The A-max with a BC of .625 at 2750fps,offers no advantage over the 139gr Scenar with a BC of .615 at 2830fps.

If the like the Scenar, then rock on! It's an excellent bullet, from what I'm told. I'll be very interested to know if you can actually get 2830fps from a 139gr bullet, though On the IMR/Hodgdon/WW powder website, the highest listed velocity from a 140gr bullet in a .260 is 2755fps...

 

[stubblejumper]

I'll be very interested to know if you can actually get 2830fps from a 139gr bullet, though On the IMR/Hodgdon/WW powder website, the highest listed velocity from a 140gr bullet in a .260 is 2755fps...

I took the data directly from the Nosler manual #6.They have four loads listed that produce over 2800fps.Why would they list such velocities,if they never recorded them?
My Cooper 260 will have a 26" barrel,so it may easily exceed 2850fps.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Did you forget that you posted:




The A-MAX and MK are no more hunting bullets than the Lapua Scenar that I brought up earlier in this thread is.

I load one hunting load for each rifle,and learn that load.I am certainly not going to carry multiple loads while on a hunt,then start unloading and loading my gun if an animal appears at a different range than I anticipated.As for the 25-06,if I was using the TTSX,I would choose the 25-06 over the 260 anytime.The increased muzzle velocity more than makes up for the slightly increased BC of the 260 while using the TTSX.

On the other hand,if I was also using the rifle for target shooting,the increased barrel life,and superior long range target bullets that are available,would make the 260 more attractive.

I agree with this completely. Just to illustrate my system (it's not for everybody!), tomorrow I'll be carrying a 130gr GS Custom in the magazine for jump shooting, still hunting, etc, and a 140gr BT for long-range shooting. If I have to take a shot at >400 yards, then I usually have plenty of time to take the GS out of the mag, and insert a BT, get into a solid shooting position, range the animal, check wind, etc.

I'm running a 100gr TTSX at 3312 out of my .25-06 for mule deer next weekend, and a 100gr MK for the long-range stuff (which works great at 400+ yards, IME. Just don't run it too fast at impact or it'll frag).

IMO the advantages of the .260 are just like you said- it uses less powder, has a larger selection of high-BC target bullets, and gives extended barrel life.

The .25-06 pushes bullets faster, has plenty of great hunting bullets available- even for shooting out to 1000 yards, and drifts less in the wind within the ranges that most hunting is done.

They're designed for different purposes, IMO, and it's impossible to say that one is better than the other. They're both great!

 

[Jordan Smith]

I took the data directly from the Nosler manual #6.They have four loads listed that produce over 2800fps.Why would they list such velocities,if they never recorded them?
My Cooper 260 will have a 26" barrel,so it may easily exceed 2850fps.

I guess it just depends on who's data you believe, and to what pressures they were loading their test loads

If you've got a 26" barrel rather than the usual 22" for that cartridge, then you're right, you probably will hit that velocity range. Unless, of course, you get a slow barrel.

 

[Jordan Smith]

todbartell,

I want to apologize for giving you false data. I accidentally had spin drift activated in my calculations for the .257 bullets, so my numbers are all off. My mistake, sorry for the confusion.

The 115gr VLD and the 130gr VLD are within 0.5" of each other all the way to 500 yards, as far as wind drift goes. After re-calculating many of the load comparisons we've discussed here, it looks like the .25-06 out-performs the .260 out to about 400 yards, at which point the .260's high-BC bullets take over.

I probably shouldn't tell that coyote that I hit several months ago at 942 yards with my .25-06 that I wasn't holding a .260, or he may get up and laugh at me while running away

My point from the beginning is that I don't think it matters much which cartridge you choose, since the animals usually aren't prejudiced against any particular chambering. If you practice with your .260 and know how it behaves in the wind, then you'll hit what you're aiming at. If you've practiced with your .25-06, the same thing applies. Most guys aren't killing game past 400 yards, so IMO one is not better than the other.....for normal hunting purposes. If you want to play the long-range target game, then that changes things.

 

[Jordan Smith]

The A-MAX and MK are no more hunting bullets than the Lapua Scenar that I brought up earlier in this thread is.

Actually, Hornady recommends the A-Max for hunting light-to-medium game

 

[Gatehouse]

My point from the beginning is that I don't think it matters much which cartridge you choose, since the animals usually aren't prejudiced against any particular chambering.

So you may as well pick the cartridge with less recoil, less powder and longer barrel life- the .260. It is, after all, a better cartridge.

 

[Jordan Smith]

LOL, thanks for that, Gatehouse