You should change who you listen to.
257 Roberts VS 25-06 VS .243Win
- Thread starter ciphery
- Start date
You should change who you listen to.
There is a lot of .243 bashing here that is completely unwarranted, and I expect based on stories rather than real use. I have been present, in one way or another, for about 30-40 deer kills with a .243, innumerable gophers, and too many coyotes to count. It is a completely adequate round for deer, and it is a strong varminter. The 6mm Rem is just a little bit more, although not enough to make any real difference in the field, at least judging by the quite few deer and some coyotes I have seen shot with one.
If you get a nice rifle in either of the 6mm twins, you will be just fine.
If you get a nice rifle in either of the 6mm twins, you will be just fine.
The Remington CDL SF limited edition is chambered in 6mm remington, this is the only current production rifle that I know of, other than maybe a cooper for about $500 more. Honestly I understand wanting to make the perfectly optimal decision between all the many choices, but you're seriously splitting hairs. There's probably about a 1% chance that you will EVER take a shot with one of these cartridges that couldn't be done just as well with any of the others, especially with careful bullet choices.
I would say that the 6mm remington would have equal accuracy potential to the 25-06 and 257 roberts, and any advantages of the 243 would be PURELY theoretical. Differences in barrel quality even between individual rifles of the same run would completely overshadow the accuracy differences between all of these.
If you wanted to get a 6mm remington, I would get one semi-custom made on a savage action, or something like that. I would imagine that any long action '06 sized bolt face would accommodate it with a new barrel, but naturally consult a gunsmith first to make sure.
In the end, it's all about which choice would make you happy and proud, as it's purely a personal choice because I doubt you will see the differences in performance alone between any of them.
I would say that the 6mm remington would have equal accuracy potential to the 25-06 and 257 roberts, and any advantages of the 243 would be PURELY theoretical. Differences in barrel quality even between individual rifles of the same run would completely overshadow the accuracy differences between all of these.
If you wanted to get a 6mm remington, I would get one semi-custom made on a savage action, or something like that. I would imagine that any long action '06 sized bolt face would accommodate it with a new barrel, but naturally consult a gunsmith first to make sure.
In the end, it's all about which choice would make you happy and proud, as it's purely a personal choice because I doubt you will see the differences in performance alone between any of them.
- Location
- Chilliwack
Sir I to have a shoulder problem, and slightly recoil sensitive. that being said the 257 Roberts and my Ruger are my go to rifle. I believe you said you are a reloader, so ammo is not hard to come by for the Roberts. As for pelts I would use the Barnes 80gr TSX and not worry about pelt damage. I would even use this bullet for deer and black bear with the right shot.
Install a Limbsaver recoil pad It's amazing how they work.
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
...back to the OP. Roberts and the 25-06 were on a level playing field until H4831 came about. But those days the 25-06 was only in wildcatters playing fields. 6mm stuff is fine fodder too.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
the 243 surely has its place....One example...I had my wife try a .308 and it was too much and didnt' fit her.....I got her a Ruger compact in .243 and it was perfect.....now I just gotta to get her to take the hunting course and get hunting liscence.
About 25 cals....I just ordered a Broughton blank 9" twist 26" ...this one will be in 25-06 AI....Bring on the Antelopes !!!
About 25 cals....I just ordered a Broughton blank 9" twist 26" ...this one will be in 25-06 AI....Bring on the Antelopes !!!
- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
It was because of the early guns it was chambered in. Aparently these guns were equiped with a 1:12 barrel. not so good for pushing the envelope of a 243/6mm.
Also seems to be a discontinued chambering and a near balistic twin to 243win. which only falls 110 fps short of the top loads on a 6mm Rem.
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- Location
- Ottawa origanally Muskoka
Well I went to a buddies place last night and we opened up a few reloader manuels,then headed to the Hornaday web site.
We went to the "hits" calculator where we found the velocitys required by different weight bullets to be effective on; small,medium,big game animals.
a reference on the balistics charts confirmed that with a top load of 120gr. nosler partition @3175fps the 25-06 is capable of taking elk @ 300yds...........also with its bottom load of 85gr.solid base balistic tip @ 3200fps there is enough energy at 200yds!
that is plain crazy! this caliber is WAY too much for varminting.....unles I want to MOP up the coyote..or take aim at a 1/4 mile.
25-06 is out.
the 257Robberts was next up with the same bulet selection as the 25-06 but with less velocity behind them the BOB was not able to tip the scales into the big game catagory.
Its top load of 120gr. partition spitzer @ 2810 fps was not quite enough ft/lbs energy on the hits calculateor to adecuately take elk,moose,bear however,
it was MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR DEER.
for deer sized game 400 yards was not out of reach for the BOB.
again however the 85gr. solid base blistic tip @ 2800 was just too much oomph for a coyote at even 200 yards with out having a squeegee redaly available.
finally came the 243Win and 244/6mm Rem.
the top load of 100gr partition spitzers @3261fps was not going to get me elk at any range but was quite adequate for medium sized game like deer. and its 55gr balistic tip @3200fps was more than adequate for coyotes.
looks like Im going to need to use my 31 cal. on elk ,moose, bear....which I am fine with.
but my deer and varmint cal seems to be clear. The .243/6mm realy does have vesatility.
All I need to do now is find a gun chambered in .243, the search continues.....
Im going to start another thread for any who wish to join. this tim it will be dedicated to the search for a particular rifle platform.
I have read all of your posts and apreciate the attention that this thread has brought. It has helped me considderably with the choices and I value all your input.........even if I dint select your caliber.
off too, "WHICH 243 RIFLE"
We went to the "hits" calculator where we found the velocitys required by different weight bullets to be effective on; small,medium,big game animals.
a reference on the balistics charts confirmed that with a top load of 120gr. nosler partition @3175fps the 25-06 is capable of taking elk @ 300yds...........also with its bottom load of 85gr.solid base balistic tip @ 3200fps there is enough energy at 200yds!
that is plain crazy! this caliber is WAY too much for varminting.....unles I want to MOP up the coyote..or take aim at a 1/4 mile.
25-06 is out.
the 257Robberts was next up with the same bulet selection as the 25-06 but with less velocity behind them the BOB was not able to tip the scales into the big game catagory.
Its top load of 120gr. partition spitzer @ 2810 fps was not quite enough ft/lbs energy on the hits calculateor to adecuately take elk,moose,bear however,
it was MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR DEER.
for deer sized game 400 yards was not out of reach for the BOB.
again however the 85gr. solid base blistic tip @ 2800 was just too much oomph for a coyote at even 200 yards with out having a squeegee redaly available.
finally came the 243Win and 244/6mm Rem.
the top load of 100gr partition spitzers @3261fps was not going to get me elk at any range but was quite adequate for medium sized game like deer. and its 55gr balistic tip @3200fps was more than adequate for coyotes.
looks like Im going to need to use my 31 cal. on elk ,moose, bear....which I am fine with.
but my deer and varmint cal seems to be clear. The .243/6mm realy does have vesatility.
All I need to do now is find a gun chambered in .243, the search continues.....
Im going to start another thread for any who wish to join. this tim it will be dedicated to the search for a particular rifle platform.
I have read all of your posts and apreciate the attention that this thread has brought. It has helped me considderably with the choices and I value all your input.........even if I dint select your caliber.
off too, "WHICH 243 RIFLE"
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- Location
- Chilliwack
Now let me through a wrench into your 257 Roberts research. Most of the reloading manuals list mild pressures for the 257 Roberts, not +P loads, witch are loaded to higher pressures. The Ruger you are looking at can handle the +P loads.
The Roberts has proven it's self (and the 243) many, many time on moose and elk. 115gr Nosler Partition with a muzzle velocity of 3050 FPS, or a Barns 100gr TST or TTSX at over to 3100. These 2 examples will harvest your elk or moose out to 350 yards. The 257 Roberts is pushing a 115gr Bullet at the same velocity as the 243 is pushing the 100gr.
Thereis also the fact that there is something magical with the 25 cal. I'm sure you'll be happy with the 243 Win. but with the 257 Roberts you'll wonder why you even considered the 243 at all.
The Roberts has proven it's self (and the 243) many, many time on moose and elk. 115gr Nosler Partition with a muzzle velocity of 3050 FPS, or a Barns 100gr TST or TTSX at over to 3100. These 2 examples will harvest your elk or moose out to 350 yards. The 257 Roberts is pushing a 115gr Bullet at the same velocity as the 243 is pushing the 100gr.
Thereis also the fact that there is something magical with the 25 cal. I'm sure you'll be happy with the 243 Win. but with the 257 Roberts you'll wonder why you even considered the 243 at all.
7mm-08 is 40% more energy but twice the recoil as 243
Both 7mm-08 and 308 Win are the 2 great modern all rounders, the modern equivalent to 270 Win and 30-06.
Sill 7mm-08 for a given sectional density 7mm bullets are 40% heavier than a comparable 6mm bullet and therefore you get twice the recoil for only 40% more kinetic energy!
That's why 243 Win is such a good choice for young shooter and women.
Alex
Both 7mm-08 and 308 Win are the 2 great modern all rounders, the modern equivalent to 270 Win and 30-06.
Sill 7mm-08 for a given sectional density 7mm bullets are 40% heavier than a comparable 6mm bullet and therefore you get twice the recoil for only 40% more kinetic energy!
That's why 243 Win is such a good choice for young shooter and women.
Alex
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
Now let me through a wrench into your 257 Roberts research. Most of the reloading manuals list mild pressures for the 257 Roberts, not +P loads, witch are loaded to higher pressures. The Ruger you are looking at can handle the +P loads.
The Roberts has proven it's self (and the 243) many, many time on moose and elk. 115gr Nosler Partition with a muzzle velocity of 3050 FPS, or a Barns 100gr TST or TTSX at over to 3100. These 2 examples will harvest your elk or moose out to 350 yards. The 257 Roberts is pushing a 115gr Bullet at the same velocity as the 243 is pushing the 100gr.
Thereis also the fact that there is something magical with the 25 cal. I'm sure you'll be happy with the 243 Win. but with the 257 Roberts you'll wonder why you even considered the 243 at all.
I have been a "quarterbore" shooter for all of my adult life and yes it is a magical calibre. Very good bullet selection these days and recoil even with the "big" 25-06 is manageable for most shooters. These are my personal feelings. If one should choose or prefer one of the 6 mm's you will have a fine deer and varmint gun as well.
Now let me through a wrench into your 257 Roberts research. Most of the reloading manuals list mild pressures for the 257 Roberts, not +P loads, witch are loaded to higher pressures. The Ruger you are looking at can handle the +P loads.
The Roberts has proven it's self (and the 243) many, many time on moose and elk. 115gr Nosler Partition with a muzzle velocity of 3050 FPS, or a Barns 100gr TST or TTSX at over to 3100. These 2 examples will harvest your elk or moose out to 350 yards. The 257 Roberts is pushing a 115gr Bullet at the same velocity as the 243 is pushing the 100gr.
Thereis also the fact that there is something magical with the 25 cal. I'm sure you'll be happy with the 243 Win. but with the 257 Roberts you'll wonder why you even considered the 243 at all.
X2.
And I'll add that the .257 100 grain Noslers (pick any of them) kill deer like forked lightning when loaded at 3000 fps out of the muzzle of a Roberts.
If you handload or plan to in the future then buy the Roberts. If not then stick with the .243.
Glad the OP stuck around through the pissing match.
I say get the 243. Lots of available rifle models, lots of available cheap ammo, plenty of power for varmints, yotes and deer and long barrel life. Of course that isn't much of an issue if you aren't a serious target shooter firing tons of rounds.
With that shoulder, a 243 with a good recoil pad should serve you well.
I say get the 243. Lots of available rifle models, lots of available cheap ammo, plenty of power for varmints, yotes and deer and long barrel life. Of course that isn't much of an issue if you aren't a serious target shooter firing tons of rounds.
With that shoulder, a 243 with a good recoil pad should serve you well.
It has almost the same barrel wear pattern as a 270 Win: you'll get 1500 rounds accurate barrel life (no perceptible reduction in accuracy).
If you're very careful with barrel maintenance and use target load, you might get 2000+ rounds of accurate barrel life.
This might not be perfect for target shooting but it's great for hunting and I've never heard any hunter complain about 270 Win barrel life.
Take a look at this and remember that we're talking about benchrest accuracy!
(real barrel burner are cartridge such as 6.5-284, less than 850 rounds)
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/excel-formula-predicts-useful-barrel-life/
If you want to get long barrel life you have to look at cartridges like 223 Rem and 308 Win where you can expect 3000 rounds accurate barrel life.
Even a 260 Rem (1800 rounds) or a 7mm-08 (2400 rounds) is tough on barrel compared to a 308 Win.
Please remember that we're talking about serious accuracy here (better than 1/2 MOA), not typical rifle accuracy.
Alex
