30-06 vs 300 win mag input greatly appreciated

Rocket Surgery said:
Here's the breakdown:

30-06 is a proven, versatile, and high powered cartridge. It can be loaded up or down in so many ways it's crazy. 300win mag allows you to gain 2-300fps velocity over 30-06 giving you flatter trajectories but this comes with way more recoil. The magnum rifles are usually longer, but not by much. 300win mag generates velocities that call for premium bullets. The ammo is more expensive and less versatile.

Many people think the magnums are just a chest thumping cartridge, or for guys with small man syndrome. I think variety is awesome but I don't really see a point in going 300win mag over 30-06. I personally like 308 short actions because you have smaller rifles, more scope mounting flexibility, more ammo capacity, less recoil, and marginal velocity loss over the 30-06.

With all this magnum bashing, I'd still take a 300 if I were going for grizzlies. Considering how there are none where I live, I don't own a 300 or a 30-06. I stick to 308, 303British, and 7.62x39
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do you think a grizzly will see and tell the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 win mag ?
 
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I hate Savage....but with a 500 dollar budget the 111 is the best you're going to get with a scope included.

They shoot straight. If you get one, go ahead and get the .300 WM, these guns actually have an amazing recoil pad (except its so soft that it frays)
 
medvedqc said:
do you think a grizzly will see and tell the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 win mag ?
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LoL... Whatever a .308win can do a 30-06 can do 5-10% better... What ever a 30-06 can do a 300wm can do 5-10% better... When bullets go where they belong no game will notice the difference between a .243 and a 300RUM...


I see no purpose in owning a 30-06 if one has a 308win and a belted magnum in the safe... You can safely hunt any critter on gods green earth with your manhood intact.
 
300WM for reloaders and rich folks.

30-06 for factory ammo for folks on factory salary.

Wish I gotten the xbolt in 300WM instead of 30-06 now that I reload.
 
My .300 handloads cost a whopping dime more per shot than my 30-06 loads when the same bullets are used. If it weren't for recoil it wouldn't even be a contest. Trouble is, the .300s are too much for most shooters.
 
Hotwheels81 said:
LoL... Whatever a .308win can do a 30-06 can do 5-10% better... What ever a 30-06 can do a 300wm can do 5-10% better... When bullets go where they belong no game will notice the difference between a .243 and a 300RUM...


I see no purpose in owning a 30-06 if one has a 308win and a belted magnum in the safe... You can safely hunt any critter on gods green earth with your manhood intact.
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Can you define better? A .30 caliber bullet can only create damage based on its expanded frontal area and its depth of penetration. If the only bullet a hunter intends to use is a 150 gr, the .308 and .30/06 are almost identical. If a hunter is armed with a .300 magnum that is zeroed for 200 yards, he has a 2" advantage in trajectory at 300 yards over a .30/06 firing the same bullet with the same zero. On a big game sized target, a couple of inches over 300 yards wouldn't seem to matter.

As for there being no purpose in owning a .30/06 if one owns a .308, thats fine if you don't intend to shoot bullets heavier than 150 grs, but with heavy for caliber bullets and particularly with bullets in excess of 200 grs, the '06 has a decided advantage over its young son. Conversely if you can't do it with a .30/06 chances are you won't be able to do it with a .300 magnum either. The key here is to go bigger, not faster, in which case a .375 bore rifle which penetrates in feet rather than inches is clearly superior to the small bore rifle. As for the conjecture of .243 being as effective with a solid hit on a big game animal as a medium capacity .30, well that depends on the animal you're shooting at.
 
Dogleg said:
My .300 handloads cost a whopping dime more per shot than my 30-06 loads when the same bullets are used. If it weren't for recoil it wouldn't even be a contest. Trouble is, the .300s are too much for most shooters.
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One of the best hunting rifles I've ever had the pleasure to use in terms of long range accuracy, and natural handling happens to be a SAKO L61 in .300 Winchester. If that had been mine the '06 might not be my darling.
 
Boomer said:
One of the best hunting rifles I've ever had the pleasure to use in terms of long range accuracy, and natural handling happens to be a SAKO L61 in .300 Winchester. If that had been mine the '06 might not be my darling.
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One thing I like about the 30-06 is you can shoot the hell out of one without wrecking it in a season. This little Cooper that I'm wringing out now has shrugged off 1000 rounds since Christmas, and I know I'll still have a barrel in August. Try that trick with one of my .300s and it would be leaning all forlorn looking in my buddies rebarrelling rack. The '06 is the one that's going on the cull hunt, ole Deathwind wouldn't last 2 days doing that stuff.:)
 
To me the real advantage of a .300 mag is the ability to shoot bigger, heavier bullets vs an '06, at the same relative velocities-trajectories. So for me, rather than shooting a 180gr bullet, I use the 200gr (Nosler Accubond). I can get the same muzzle velocity with that bigger bullet as if I could with a 180gr out of a .30-06.
That 200gr Accubond is a wickedly good bullet at 2700-2800 fps MV out of a .300H&H. It will carry end-to-end on as big a deer as you're ever likely to encounter, plus it'll handle any elk, moose, Grizz' etc...

But very few people think the way I do (thankfully). The overwhelming majority shoot the same grain bullet, just at higher velocity.
 
Demonical,

very good choice the 300 h&h ...
the 30-06 is not a magnum but you can get 2650 fps from a 200 grains partition again dont think a grizzly or even an elk will notice the difference.

just for the infos :

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/May_2009.html

Demonical said:
To me the real advantage of a .300 mag is the ability to shoot bigger, heavier bullets vs an '06, at the same relative velocities-trajectories. So for me, rather than shooting a 180gr bullet, I use the 200gr (Nosler Accubond). I can get the same muzzle velocity with that bigger bullet as if I could with a 180gr out of a .30-06.
That 200gr Accubond is a wickedly good bullet at 2700-2800 fps MV out of a .300H&H. It will carry end-to-end on as big a deer as you're ever likely to encounter, plus it'll handle any elk, moose, Grizz' etc...

But very few people think the way I do (thankfully). The overwhelming majority shoot the same grain bullet, just at higher velocity.
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To OP;

like advised before, don't buy a 770.

By not considering blind/hinged mag. rifles, you are depriving yourself from an impressive list of truly competent hunting rifles in your price range. If you can bring yourself to consider them, then look at Stevens 200 and Marlin XL-7. I owned a XL-7 in 30-06 and if you don't mind plastic guns :D it is an amazing value, (well, they now come in wood stock too). If however, hard Wood and blue steel is what rings your bell, then take a look at Zestavas at Trade-ex website or even their used Hasqvarna 1600's. I own the latter and it will never be sold.
 
Demonical said:
But very few people think the way I do (thankfully). The overwhelming majority shoot the same grain bullet, just at higher velocity.
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Well, I think that way. I have always felt that the "reason" for magnums is heavy for caliber bullets at high velocity. Anyone who doesn't understand that a 200 grain bullet at 2950 fps from my .300 Win is something that no .30-06 can match has never seen what that combination does on game. I agree that, if you are going to shoot 150 grain bullets, the .30-06 can do all you need to do with them; but once you start using the potential of the .300 magnums with heavy bullets, you have a significant difference.

The same holds true for other magnums. A 7mm Rem Mag shooting 140 grain bullets is just a loud mouthed .280 Rem. Give it 175 grain bullets to shoot, and it becomes something the .280 can never be.
 
not my experience with the 7x64 brenneke with 177 grains from RWS (called TUG in those days). and we had the 7mm mag to compare with higher speed but no differences on wild boars ....

not my experience while i was guiding too.

not my experience when i lived in Africa.

and it s coming from a guy that used for years a 300 weatherby magnum and 220 grains .....

what is important is trust and rely in your tools not on numbers ....

rral22 said:
Well, I think that way. I have always felt that the "reason" for magnums is heavy for caliber bullets at high velocity. Anyone who doesn't understand that a 200 grain bullet at 2950 fps from my .300 Win is something that no .30-06 can match has never seen what that combination does on game. I agree that, if you are going to shoot 150 grain bullets, the .30-06 can do all you need to do with them; but once you start using the potential of the .300 magnums with heavy bullets, you have a significant difference.

The same holds true for other magnums. A 7mm Rem Mag shooting 140 grain bullets is just a loud mouthed .280 Rem. Give it 175 grain bullets to shoot, and it becomes something the .280 can never be.
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rral22 said:
Well, I think that way. I have always felt that the "reason" for magnums is heavy for caliber bullets at high velocity. Anyone who doesn't understand that a 200 grain bullet at 2950 fps from my .300 Win is something that no .30-06 can match has never seen what that combination does on game. I agree that, if you are going to shoot 150 grain bullets, the .30-06 can do all you need to do with them; but once you start using the potential of the .300 magnums with heavy bullets, you have a significant difference.

The same holds true for other magnums. A 7mm Rem Mag shooting 140 grain bullets is just a loud mouthed .280 Rem. Give it 175 grain bullets to shoot, and it becomes something the .280 can never be.
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I likes the way you think!! :cheers:
 
john morris said:
Ok great guys thanks $500 is the absolute max I've got to play with.

To anyone I was short with earlier I apologize
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Have you checked out the used hunting rifles at Tradex (see above). They've got lots of used Mauser action rifles, in .30-06 (6.5x55 and others). Those rifles are great value. If you sift through the inventory, there's always a few that are worth buying; we're talking $250 to $500 range.

If you buy one of those, you might have to modify it to use a scope. But if you aren't intending to use a scope, then you can definitely get something that fits your budget.

Somebody else mentioned to check out the Zastava's they've got. Those are really inexpensive, for what you get.

I've bought a couple of rifles from Tradex, as well as dies, brass & bullets. They are super to deal with. I recommend them highly (especially since I love those old WWII era mauser sporters).
 
rral22 said:
Well, I think that way. I have always felt that the "reason" for magnums is heavy for caliber bullets at high velocity. Anyone who doesn't understand that a 200 grain bullet at 2950 fps from my .300 Win is something that no .30-06 can match has never seen what that combination does on game. I agree that, if you are going to shoot 150 grain bullets, the .30-06 can do all you need to do with them; but once you start using the potential of the .300 magnums with heavy bullets, you have a significant difference.

The same holds true for other magnums. A 7mm Rem Mag shooting 140 grain bullets is just a loud mouthed .280 Rem. Give it 175 grain bullets to shoot, and it becomes something the .280 can never be.
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I shoot 240 gr bullets at 2300 and 220 gr bullets at 2500 out of my '06 for bear work and 180s gr bulk bullets for plinking. So yes I like heavy for caliber bullets but I don't need to drive them 200 fps faster to get good performance out of them, and I've had good accuracy with them out to 300 yards. The velocity envelope of the 240 gr Woodleigh is listed as 2400 fps, so shooting that bullet faster from a .300 might not be a wise decision. If velocity is the overriding criteria for out hunting rifles, why don't we all just shoot 30-378s? As I've said in other posts, when my '06 ain't enough I'll bring out a .375 and when the .375 ain't enough I bring out the .458.

The criteria for me is straight line penetration and an exit wound. This requires the bullet maintain a longitudinal axis of rotation after expansion, which can be facilitated quite nicely by a solid shank. Without a longitudinal axis to spin around, stability is lost. It requires a relatively soft core that is bonded to the jacket to facilitate full expansion across a wide velocity spectrum, and reduces the long bullet's inclination to precess (yaw) upon impact. You might recall pictures of Knyoch solids from years ago that had squashed bases; this was evidence of those long bullets' precession.

You might have been interested in the bullet testing I did with the 380 gr Rhino in my .375 Ultra. The wound volume from the 380 at 2300 (later 2350) was double to 3 times the wound volume of the 270 XLC at 2900. I say 2-3 times more because the 380 repeatedly demolished testing medium container making it impossible to measure the wound volume, yet penetration for both bullets was 32". What caused this to happen? Because the 270 gr Barnes expanded to seven-tenths of an inch while the 380 expanded to nine-tenths of an inch. The more severe damage of the heavier bullet had nothing to do with velocity, as the impact velocity was 600 fps slower! The advantage of the heavy for caliber lead core bullet is that it has more expandable length than a lighter bullet or a mono-metal bullet like a TSX whose expandable section remains the same within caliber and weight is determined by the length of the shank. A longer core results in a wider expanded frontal area which creates a larger wound while the additional weight results in greater momentum to ensure deep penetration.
 
http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/6000-husqvarna-1600-series-30-06
See, there's an example of a nice, useful Mauser action, in .30-06. That thing is better than any Remington M-770. And that particular rifle is drilled and tapped for scope mounting.



http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/8258-parker-hale-m98-safari-30-06
And another...



http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/13506-bsa-cf2-30-06
If your limit is $500 and you don't care to use a scope then here's another nice looking used rifle.



http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/zastava-commercial-m98-300-winchester-magnum-0
A Zastava.



http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/husqvarna-m98-sporter-93x62-0
Here's a rifle with real 'punch', for your moose and black bear hunts.




Btw, I don't work for Tradex, I just endorse them!!
 
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