300 Fireball AR15 (Brass forming - post #150)

[incorrigible]

I have a .300 Blackout now integrally suppressed

My ex-girlfriend wasn't that much of a tease... a pic wouldn't hurt

 

[simpleton]

I have a .300 Blackout now integrally suppressed

Ya, you can't just say stuff like that without a photo....it's mean




.

 

[Suputin]

Originally Posted by KevinB
I have a .300 Blackout now integrally suppressed

Phhht, big deal, so do I. Only I didn't drink the AAC coolaid so mine is in 300 SPEX.

 

[Doc M]

Phhht, big deal, so do I. Only I didn't drink the AAC coolaid so mine is in 300 SPEX.

FWIW, I hate you both.

I wish I had a prohibited devices license so I could play with cans...

-M

 

[KevinB]

Phhht, big deal, so do I. Only I didn't drink the AAC coolaid so mine is in 300 SPEX.

I did not drink the coolaid, customers did...

Its a supported cartridge now in some circles.

 

[J0HN_R1]

For those concerned about terminal ballistics, consider what a 1.1" long 150gr, .30 caliber bullet moving at 1700 fps is likely to do to a soft target.

That's the only thing that bothers me about purchasing an AR... Inanimate objects are the only thing you'll ever (legally) shot...

But you have a very nice rifle...!

 

[RememberTheSomme]

I agree on bullet placement is utmost for sure, but the 55gr .223 will fragment and yaw at 2500fps so thats out to about 85 yds in a 14.5 M-4. Remember .308 is not a large diameter as pistol rounds go or high pistol velocities either. If it were than the .30 luger would be better than the .40 S&W. I just think it your taking velocity ,yaw ,fragmentation, out of the carbine equation you better put in frontal area for tissue damage. Expanding projectiles or a big frontal area from .40 and up. I'm by no means an expert but i do understand a little about wound ballistics. If you understand more about the issue i am open for correction. Your velocity 1700FPS is what a 7.62 NATO fired from an FNC1 will do at 800 yds. I think i take my m4 with 2950 at the muzzle and what it will do on soft targets at 25 yds over what the 147 FMJ 762NATO will do at 800 yds. isnt the whisper more or less like an M-1 carbine round for effectiveness at close quarters?
:Again i love the look of that carbine

Suputin you are not going to reply to my comment? Am i out in left field here?

I can take a schooling, this is what discussion froums are all about.

 

[Doc M]

Suputin you are not going to reply to my comment? Am i out in left field here?

I can take a schooling, this is what discussion froums are all about.

If you're comparing the .300 Whisper to an M1 carbine at close range, the penetration of subsonics beats the balls out of anything the M1 shoots... and being shootable out of the AR15 platform is another plus for those of us who are back-and-forth familiar with that system.

Reading your comment, I don't even understand your question? It's just a jumble of miscellaneous comments to me?

-M

 

[RememberTheSomme]

If you're comparing the .300 Whisper to an M1 carbine at close range, the penetration of subsonics beats the balls out of anything the M1 shoots... and being shootable out of the AR15 platform is another plus for those of us who are back-and-forth familiar with that system.

Reading your comment, I don't even understand your question? It's just a jumble of miscellaneous comments to me?

-M

Don't know if i can make it any clearer for you then whats posted. Its not a question its a statement with a little closing question, that i already feel i have the answer to but i wanted someone else to consider. The round has value as a silenced firearm. Lethality compared to the original round the AR fired I'll debate that. Don't want to upset your apple cart but when i see new and improved over something that already works i need to see in what way its better.

 

[Doc M]

Don't know if i can make it any clearer for you then whats posted. Its not a question its a statement with a little closing question, that i already feel i have the answer to but i wanted someone else to consider. The round has value as a silenced firearm. Lethality compared to the original round the AR fired I'll debate that. Don't want to upset your apple cart but when i see new and improved over something that already works i need to see in what way its better.

Comparing the lethality of a .300 Whisper vs. the original AR15 supersonic round doesn't make one iota of sense... but comparing the suppressed rounds does. The .300 Whisper, suppressed, is a hell of a lot more effective when "quiet" is required than the AR15's original 5.56.

That said, in Canada it's sort of a moot point.

-M

 

[RememberTheSomme]

Comparing the lethality of a .300 Whisper vs. the original AR15 supersonic round doesn't make one iota of sense... but comparing the suppressed rounds does. The .300 Whisper, suppressed, is a hell of a lot more effective when "quiet" is required than the AR15's original 5.56.

That said, in Canada it's sort of a moot point.

-M

Thank you. So like my first post about the advantage only as subsonic round i was right in regards to lethality. I'm not talking about what someone does or doesnt do to a firearm they earned the money for, I think the carbines are great looking, i'm just responding to the OP making a statement i took to mean it was a very lethal round on soft tissue at close range ,say a Deer, with the 147FMJs at 1700. I'm thinking wow the original 55s would be more than that. Can ou see where my comment came from. 1700 is a 7.62NATO at 800yds!

 

[Doc M]

Thank you. So like my first post about the advantage only as subsonic round i was right in regards to lethality. I'm not talking about what someone does or doesnt do to a firearm they earned the money for, I think the carbines are great looking, i'm just responding to the OP making a statement i took to mean it was a very lethal round on soft tissue at close range ,say a Deer, with the 147FMJs at 1700. I'm thinking wow the original 55s would be more than that. Can ou see where my comment came from. 1700 is a 7.62NATO at 800yds!

1700 with a proper .308 bullet is still better than a high-velocity .22 for my money though.

I may be biased since I own one of the original .300 uppers though!

-M

 

[RememberTheSomme]

1700 with a proper .308 bullet is still better than a high-velocity .22 for my money though.

I may be biased since I own one of the original .300 uppers though!

-M

Fair enough. You probaly are thinking lighter and expanding maybe in the .300. This, I would say, will bring it back to the lethality of the 5.56. Remember the debate started over why the heavy slow FMJ was considered so good and except for using the understanding i have of ballistics internal,external and terminal, i needed to know what made it so lethal.


I am new to these wildcats, and i thought some revelation such as; a beginner in ballistics who learns internal, externals but only sees terminal energy as a deciding factor and not understanding what happens during a bullets path through a target medium( Like the gr 5.56 during its path). I was just curious in finding out something i didnt know about these slower heavy bullets doing something i didnt even think could happen.

I know that this is a short range cartridge and the carbines are built according, but has anyone tried this at ranges to 200yds and beyond. I'm curious about accuracy up to and after transition to subsonic? What range will this 1700 FPS 147 go subsonic and is the accuracy drop the same as the cartridge fired in a 7.62NATO and the subsequent velocity drop at approx 1000 yds?

 

[simpleton]

Do your own research buddy, there's free ballistics programs all over the internet. You do realize that the .300 Whisper was intended as a task specific round right?....one, that has numerous side benifits. You can run from the 240gr range subsonically right down to 100-110gr running supersonic.

The big weakness from a hunting standpoint is anyone running subsonic will have a hard time finding a bullet that will expand and transfer energy to the target instead of retaining it while passing through. Now that Remington has standardized this wildcat as the 300 Blackout, it sounds like they are going to produce some subsonic expanding bullets.....at least so they say.


16" barrel@muzzle

5.56mm, M855 2938ft/sec, 1188ft-lb
300 BLK, 123gr 2315ft'sec, 1462ft-lb




.

 

[RememberTheSomme]

Do your own research buddy, there's free ballistics programs all over the internet. You do realize that the .300 Whisper was intended as a task specific round right?....one, that has numerous side benifits. You can run from the 240gr range subsonically right down to 100-110gr running supersonic.

The big weakness from a hunting standpoint is anyone running subsonic will have a hard time finding a bullet that will expand and transfer energy to the target instead of retaining it while passing through. Now that Remington has standardized this wildcat as the 300 Blackout, it sounds like they are going to produce some subsonic expanding bullets.....at least so they say.


16" barrel@muzzle

5.56mm, M855 2938ft/sec, 1188ft-lb
300 BLK, 123gr 2315ft'sec, 1462ft-lb




.

Thanks for the info and the advise Simpleton. I will do some research "Buddy".

 

[Suputin]

Don't know if i can make it any clearer for you then whats posted. Its not a question its a statement with a little closing question, that i already feel i have the answer to but i wanted someone else to consider. The round has value as a silenced firearm. Lethality compared to the original round the AR fired I'll debate that. Don't want to upset your apple cart but when i see new and improved over something that already works i need to see in what way its better.

I honestly don't know how a supersonic 150gr .30 cal bullet would compare in lethality to a 55gr 556 round.

Hatcher discovered that 150gr 30-06 bullet would penetrate more sand at 600m than it would at 100m. It has to do with the supersonic velocity packing material in front of the bullet.

In a conventional sized rifle the 300 W does not offer a lot of improvement over the 556 except with respect to lightweight bullets. The 300 W is roughly equivalent to 7.62x39. And that is a debate I am not getting into.

Where the 300 W really shines is in short barreled carbines. Shorty 556 cal rifles lose so much velocity that the bullet terminal ballistics are compromised. This is not true for 300 W ballistics. The case is so small that it generates max velocity with a much shorter barrel length.

300 W carbines can still offer excellent terminal ballistics in very short barrels. I have experimented with one as short as 7.5" and it still chucks 200gr bullets out at 1000 fps which is a hellaciously big chunk of lead to encounter.

Remington has recently SAAMI standardized the 300 Whisper and started producing factory ammo for it because they see a use for it in military applications. Obviously this is a specialized round for specialized operations.

 

[RememberTheSomme]

I honestly don't know how a supersonic 150gr .30 cal bullet would compare in lethality to a 55gr 556 round.

Hatcher discovered that 150gr 30-06 bullet would penetrate more sand at 600m than it would at 100m. It has to do with the supersonic velocity packing material in front of the bullet.

In a conventional sized rifle the 300 W does not offer a lot of improvement over the 556 except with respect to lightweight bullets. The 300 W is roughly equivalent to 7.62x39. And that is a debate I am not getting into.

Where the 300 W really shines is in short barreled carbines. Shorty 556 cal rifles lose so much velocity that the bullet terminal ballistics are compromised. This is not true for 300 W ballistics. The case is so small that it generates max velocity with a much shorter barrel length.

300 W carbines can still offer excellent terminal ballistics in very short barrels. I have experimented with one as short as 7.5" and it still chucks 200gr bullets out at 1000 fps which is a hellaciously big chunk of lead to encounter.

Remington has recently SAAMI standardized the 300 Whisper and started producing factory ammo for it because they see a use for it in military applications. Obviously this is a specialized round for specialized operations.

I do see the very short barrel ballistic advantage. And at those barrel lenghts the 5.56 velocity would not cause the usual unstable 55gr tumble that adds to its incapacitation effectiveness. Good post thanks.

 

[cbass]

Thought I'd chime in with a quick question regarding forming cases from .223 brass. I finally picked up some dies last weekend and have been trying to find the quickest way to go from 223 to 300/221. I found I can easily expand and size the 223 brass in one shot then trim it. But is there any problem with necking up the 223 that much in one shot? So far I haven't noticed any difficulty. The way I see it is the worst that will happen is I'll split a neck, and if I do so what it's getting trimmed down well past the neck anyways. Some pictures just for reference

 

[2katz]

Redding has a trim die, it forms the body with out expanding the neck. You chop off the excess and the use a file to bring it to the correct length. Then you run it thru the FL die and your done.

 

[cbass]

Thats what I started doing but I was finding it took an extra couple steps sizing that way. This way I can trim to length on the trimmer in one shot without changing pilots half way through and then I'm done. I just wanted to know if I was risking doing harm to anything by running this way