308 vs 30-06

[M'aiq the Liar]

I have a friend who shot a Bull moose with a 243 winchester. I've shot one with a 270 and it dropped. Shot placement is more important than how large a cartridge is. Your fish and game club must have had too many drinks.

303 British has been a classic for the the natives and Inuits for Moose, Caribou, Bison, and Polar Bear.

Any caliber is good. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!! PERIOD

Minimum for moose is 243 win and bigger.

I also know a guy that took down a moose before with a .243. Hand loaded .95grain. Double lung shot. The moose took 4 steps and down it went. The .243 is fast and can penetrate very well. As long as you hit the lungs, the game is yours. I agree, shot placement is a large factor if you're going to get that game or not. If you don't have the power to penetrate then shot placement will do you no good. Again for the 5000th time and no one seems to be listening, I never said it can't but a .338 can do it a lot better. Do you not agree with this? Was the .308 bouncing off the head of a Hog video not enough evidence for you?

 

[Pseudo]

I don't take hunting information from the internet seriously. Most really good hunters don't even know how to use the internet or just don't care about the internet. They tend to have better skills that keep them entertained like mechanic or house projects or they drink beer with their friends. I know everyone around this area has a .338 for moose or bison hunting because I asked that same stupid question at my first appearance at my local Fish & Game meeting and they all told me to use minimum a .300win mag for moose and that they all use a .338Lapua because it’s good for moose and for the thick hide and strong bones of a Bison. There is a big difference between calibers that can kill a moose and those that can be relied upon to stop one. I'm not a skilled hunter, not even close. But I’m good enough not to use a 30-06 on a moose and good enough to never make head shots.

Well I agree with the no head shots, I'v always been told to avoid them because the margin for error is to small. Why aim for such a small target when the chest cavity offers a much larger kill zone, heart an lungs. As for needing a larger Caliber, well I guess it depends on where you are from. Here in the yukon the minimum for bison is center fire .30 caliber or larger with minimum 180 grain bullet; the 30-06 is the base line.
My old man has been hunting for the past 40 years and has only ever hunted with a 30-06. He has successfully hunted everything from sheep to bison with his 30-06, he had a 375 h&h which he never found any use for because his 30-06 fulfilled all his hunting need with out failure so he gave it to me . Nothing wrong with going with a larger caliber but you may not need it and the larger the caliber the more expensive the ammunition. Check and see what the minimum is in your area then make you choice based on that. For up here you would not be allowed to use a 270 for bison even tho it shoots just as well as a 30-06.

Personally, I like 'em both but the .30-06 is a classic, so it gets my favour....

------------
NAA.

+1 for the 30-06

 

[crazy_davey]

I'm not a skilled hunter, not even close.

After reading through this garbage, that statement is painfully obvious.

 

[aprilfoolsme]

Buy them both put them in gun safe!
Open gun safe which ever one comes to hand
that is todays shooter!
Ensure you match ammunition to gun
go out and have some fun

 

[aprilfoolsme]

Eithe M'aiq the Liar is trolling us, or he got trolled hard by the members of his club!!

 

[crazy_davey]

Eithe M'aiq the Liar is trolling us, or he got trolled hard by the members of his club!!

I am pretty sure it was his Grandfather and youtube that "trolled" him as you call it.

I'm pretty sure I never said they can't. I'm going off of what my grandpa has told me and I believe him because of this YouTube video.

Some of these young guys crack me up . Nothing like developing opinions by what you see on youtube

 

[senior]

The .308 and 30-06 are the two popular rounds for people that don't know much about hunting and are just getting into hunting or firearms.

his .303 bouncing right off the shoulder of a moose

The most ridiculous two quotes I've heard in a long time, thanks for the laugh , can I use them in my sig line

 

[Boomer]

You see, I never said the 30-06 can't kill a moose. I'm just implying that most experienced hunters like to use a .338Laupa. It all draws down to, how dead do you want that moose or bison? The .338 is a lot more likely to make a clean kill. Actually, since they made the .375H&H the minimum to hunt elephant with, A lot less people are getting killed well safari hunting yet they still insist you should use something a lot bigger like the .600overkill. Surprisingly, a lot of people were killed well hunting elephant because the shot didn't penetrate or, the person didn't know that you’re actually supposed to aim from behind the ear at the weakest point of the skull to actually penetrate. My grandpa has told me horror stories of his .303 bouncing right off the shoulder of a moose and during my hunting course, both of the instructors also told me some stories around the same line. Although, these could just be stories.

You're intelligence level is incredible. I'm pretty sure I never said they can't. I'm going off of what my grandpa has told me and I believe him because of this YouTube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzT33sEhQ20

.308 bounces off the head of a Hog! The hog is in the lower left of the video. If a .308 can bounce off the head of a hog, then a .303 can bounce off a moose.

That should pretty well end this stupid debate with all these so called hunters that don't know what they’re talking about on this form. I never said the 30-06 or .308 can’t, but the .338Laupa can sure as hell do it a lot better.

MTL, you appear to have a fixation with bullets bouncing off game animals. You can relax, it doesn't happen. With respect to the hog video, that was pretty skimpy evidence, you'll note you never saw the recovered animal and that you're taking the video's word for what happened. A hog has a long sloping head, and a poor shot could result in a bullet which runs along-side the skull without penetrating, that isn't the same a bouncing off, nor is it evidence that the .308/150 AB is a poor big game bullet. A 500 gr .458 bullet would have done likewise with the same placement.

Your contention that "most" experienced hunters prefer the .338 Lapua is interesting, if we are talking about hunting experience rather than rifle experience. The vast majority of big game hunters have never even heard of the .338 Lapua, and more than a few others have never heard of the .338 Winchester. I'm curious though, what your shooting experience is with the .338 Lapua? Have you fired a sporter weight rifle chambered for this cartridge from supported field positions? How many rounds a year do you believe must fired from a powerful rifle to ensure you can use it competently? I have not fired a .338 Lapua, but I suspect it might be similar to shooting a 260-270 gr bullet at full throttle from my .375 Ultra as velocities are similar. I'm fairly recoil tolerant, but from low supported positions, 5 rounds is about my limit with the .375. However, I have fired a .340 Weatherby and found it considerably milder, yet the .340 nips at the heals of the Lapua. The fact is the .338 Lapua is a cartridge useful only to the dedicated rifleman, and is outside of the manageable limits of a man who spends more time hunting than on the range. The .30/06 by contrast produces the upper level of recoil for the big game hunter who has no interest in becoming a dedicated shooter.

Frankly I'm having trouble trying to imagine a North American hunting scenario where a .338/250 at 2850 (assuming a manageable barrel length) would succeed over normal hunting ranges where a .308/180 at 2700 would fail. Perhaps a quartering shot on a big bison would be the exception to the rule, as the Lapua penetrates perhaps 30% deeper. I think its fair to say that the .338 Lapua is too much of a good thing for the average hunter who cannot exploit its ballistic advantage over lessor, though suitable cartridges.

The fellow who can really make use of the .338 Lapua is the long range hunter who makes his shot with a heavy target rifle, at ranges on the long side of a half mile, with 300 gr VLDs from a long fast twist match barrel. But the guys who can do this are rare as its an expensive and demanding game, which requires far more dedication than most are willing to commit to.

 

[Fracture]

Perhaps M'aiq is more knowledgeable with The Elder Scrolls computer games, from which his name is borrowed from.

 

[LittleBoyLefty]

Great advice?

The .308 and 30-06 are the two popular rounds for people that don't know much about hunting and are just getting into hunting or firearms.

I'm not a skilled hunter, not even close. But I’m good enough not to use a 30-06 on a moose and good enough to never make head shots.

The above was quoted for pure awesomeness...

You're intelligence level is incredible.

Aaahhh.... It's "Your intelligence level is incredible"... See what ya did there? Best go get some experience, learn how to write/spell, then come back and do the insulting, condescending thing. Best of luck...

 

[LittleBoyLefty]

PS. Make mine a Springfield.

 

[Ormachek]

You're intelligence level is incredible. I'm pretty sure I never said they can't. I'm going off of what my grandpa has told me and I believe him because of this YouTube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzT33sEhQ20

.308 bounces off the head of a Hog! The hog is in the lower left of the video. If a .308 can bounce off the head of a hog, then a .303 can bounce off a moose.

That should pretty well end this stupid debate with all these so called hunters that don't know what they’re talking about on this form. I never said the 30-06 or .308 can’t, but the .338Laupa can sure as hell do it a lot better.

Here what I see in the video....a puff of dirt, and something running away. One could make a pretty good guess at saying that the shooter simply missed his target.

How that proves ANYTHING I fail to understand.

Anyways,

I'm done with this thread.

 

[steve62]

WOW

I would say either would work well for you. 30 06 has a better selection on the self. I use a 30 06 bush gun "760 carbine" for the thick stuff I use a 7m Rem mag for longer shots. I have shot bear deer and Moose with both.

Oh as for bullets bouncing off stay away from those rubber bullets.

 

[marlinspiker]

Thanks guys to all those who had something useful to contribute.
As for the rest of yous

My question originated from a conversation with my father about what type of rifle to buy. I had mentioned .308 and he suggested I go up to a 30-06. I understood there was some prejudice there as he has always hunted moose and deer with his 30-06 and with probably 70 years hunting experience he is no "newbie hunter" so I respect his opinions. I was originally attracted to the .308 due to significantly less recoil and availability but after my dads advice, this thread and some reading I will be looking at the 30-06.

Thanks Again

 

[Bookworm]

You see, I never said the 30-06 can't kill a moose. I'm just implying that most experienced hunters like to use a .338Laupa. It all draws down to, how dead do you want that moose or bison? The .338 is a lot more likely to make a clean kill. Actually, since they made the .375H&H the minimum to hunt elephant with, A lot less people are getting killed well safari hunting yet they still insist you should use something a lot bigger like the .600overkill. Surprisingly, a lot of people were killed well hunting elephant because the shot didn't penetrate or, the person didn't know that you’re actually supposed to aim from behind the ear at the weakest point of the skull to actually penetrate. My grandpa has told me horror stories of his .303 bouncing right off the shoulder of a moose and during my hunting course, both of the instructors also told me some stories around the same line. Although, these could just be stories.

Does this mean that I have to go back over the 60 years I have been hunting and put all my Moose,Grizzles, Hogs, and Deer back. Biggest rifle I have ever used is a 308 and almost all my game were single shots. Oh yea and that Moose I shot with a 44/40 (pistol cartridge) dropped dead almost instantly.

Dave

 

[caramel]

I am a 308 fanatic but i have to say with your choice you cant go wrong... Cheers. JP.

 

[Ar180shooter]

Both cartridges are basically the same performance wise.

 

[LittleBoyLefty]

Thanks guys to all those who had something useful to contribute.
As for the rest of yous

My question originated from a conversation with my father about what type of rifle to buy. I had mentioned .308 and he suggested I go up to a 30-06. I understood there was some prejudice there as he has always hunted moose and deer with his 30-06 and with probably 70 years hunting experience he is no "newbie hunter" so I respect his opinions. I was originally attracted to the .308 due to significantly less recoil and availability but after my dads advice, this thread and some reading I will be looking at the 30-06.

Thanks Again

You really cannot go wrong with either. Finding the rifle that fits you and your hunting matters far more than what it is chambered for, within reason. All that said... listen to your Dad! And have fun shopping and shooting!

 

[H4831]

Thanks guys to all those who had something useful to contribute.
As for the rest of yous

My question originated from a conversation with my father about what type of rifle to buy. I had mentioned .308 and he suggested I go up to a 30-06. I understood there was some prejudice there as he has always hunted moose and deer with his 30-06 and with probably 70 years hunting experience he is no "newbie hunter" so I respect his opinions. I was originally attracted to the .308 due to significantly less recoil and availability but after my dads advice, this thread and some reading I will be looking at the 30-06.

Thanks Again

I didn't reply to this, but if I had of, I would have sided with your father.
I have also had 70 years hunting experience, but only 68 years since I shot my first moose---with a 30-06.
I consider the 30-06 superior in several ways, including far superior to reload for.
1) Greater variety of powder adated to the 30-06.

2) 200, 220 or 240 grain bullets are far and away superior in a 30-06.

3) The 30-06 has been made for over 100 years and in every country that makes sporting rifles and in every action type ever designed for center fire rifles, including drillings with the skinny barrels. Thus, the ammunition manufacturers and the loading companies consider there is a danger of there being weak 30-06 rifles out there somewhere, so they load the 30-06 to considerably lower pressures than they do the 308W or the 270W, which are a newer design.
Common sense dictates that a modern bolt action rifle in 30-06, will stand the same pressures as will a 308, or 270 in the same rifle design. Thus, a modern 30-06 bolt action rifle is commonly loaded to pressures equalling the 308W and it then becomes a rifle with substantially more power than has a 308W.

 

[Ar180shooter]

I didn't reply to this, but if I had of, I would have sided with your father.
I have also had 70 years hunting experience, but only 68 years since I shot my first moose---with a 30-06.
I consider the 30-06 superior in several ways, including far superior to reload for.
1) Greater variety of powder adated to the 30-06.

2) 200, 220 or 240 grain bullets are far and away superior in a 30-06.

3) The 30-06 has been made for over 100 years and in every country that makes sporting rifles and in every action type ever designed for center fire rifles, including drillings with the skinny barrels. Thus, the ammunition manufacturers and the loading companies consider there is a danger of there being weak 30-06 rifles out there somewhere, so they load the 30-06 to considerably lower pressures than they do the 308W or the 270W, which are a newer design.
Common sense dictates that a modern bolt action rifle in 30-06, will stand the same pressures as will a 308, or 270 in the same rifle design. Thus, a modern 30-06 bolt action rifle is commonly loaded to pressures equalling the 308W and it then becomes a rifle with substantially more power than has a 308W.

That is true, but you need to hand load to be able to make use of those advantages. The OP mentioned that ammo availability was a concern, so with that, it is safe to assume that he does not hand load. He was looking for advice on which round is appropriate for taking deer/moose, cost and availability of ammo. Cost and availability are comparable, and the ballistics from factory ammunition are close enough that the game won't notice a difference.