308 vs6.5 creedmore

pete dobinson said:
Out to 400 yards a properly loaded 270 will have an edge on the 6.5 CM. A good quality 130gr bullet at 3150 fps or a 140gr at 3000+ and a 150 gr bullet at 2900+ fps is easy to achieve with RL26. The BC of .277 bullets aren't really a slouch either, they have enough for any range I need to hunt.
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Lots of love for the .270 win, used it the most. Here's why I won't have another...and also why the 6.5 Creedmoor is 100% the 21st century alternative and nearly identical match and you get to do it in a short action burning 12 grains less powder.

.270 win, 140 gr Accubond, Federal Premium, no longer offered, my favourite load.
2950 fps rated
BC .46
SD .261
400 yard impact 2225 fps
10 mph wind 10.6"
Recoil Energy 8.5 lb rifle 16.8 ft/lbs

6.5 Creedmoor 140 eld-m factory
2710 fps rated
BC .646
SD .287
400 yard impact 2200 fps
10 mph wind 8.2"
Recoil Energy 8.5 lb rifle 11.2 ft/lbs

The only win for the .270 win here is 25 fps impact at 400 yards which is about 1.2% but the SD of the 6.5 is 9.1% higher so the true advantage goes to the 6.5 as it will penetrated deeper. ;)

The 6.5 Creedmoor kicks it's azz in every category at 400 yards. Period. At 600 yards the 6.5 has a 54% advantage with that 9.1% penetration advantage and the wind drift gap just keeps growing and growing. I consider them both 600 yard cartridges as they can basically get close enough to 2000 fps impacts there, but the wind/recoil advantages the hit probability and ease of making 600 yards shots at a different level than the .270 win. You can compare reloads all you like, try to use factory examples so the rest of us can see the perspectives between them properly.

And we all agreed pretty much everything is good to 400 anyway. I know deer fall over instant dead at 420 with a 16" barrel 6.5 Grendel 123 gr eld-m, so these two are absolute magnums by comparison lol.

I'd choose .270 win over .308 every day and twice on Sundays if that's any consolation, but only in a world where the manbun doesn't exist.
 
iron cat said:
I know a few real ELR shooters that not only shoot expanded ranges at targets but as hunters as well, and not one of them would even consider using a 6.5 anything past 500 meters, and they don't consider ELR anything inside 900.
First off is accuracy,yes and light calibers and cartridges just don't cut it when building long range hunting rigs .
The difference at 1K between a 140 6.5 WSM wildcat and a 250 338 Lapua coming out about the same MV on steel is the 6.5 marks the steel and the 338 puts a big dent in it .
Cat
Edit note: at one time I shot a wldcatted 6.5 and used to make one shot kills regularly at "further than normal " distances, but don't anymore, I save the long range stuff for targets
Cat
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To carry on with the ethics derail then...what are the impact velocities of either? As I mentioned before, is there a certain distance where they get a shield and can no longer take a 140 high bc/sd bullet? So the 338 is extra dead...along with your shoulder? And yeah, we know very few elrh consistent killers for reasons I already stated and people can call it whatever they want but facts are very very very few are consistent killers past 600 so may as well call that elrh, and everything up to that long range hunting, you gotta pick a line in the sand, another way to look at it up to 0.75 seconds tof long range and everything past that extended long range. Doesn't matter the dimple on the steel size on game, guys are killing very far with 6.5 PRC's, way too far for this cowboy. And it will be 10x easier with it than a lapua.

I'm with you, used to shoot further, kill further, now don't. Also with you on hunting rig vs target rigs, have one for each, don't take the target gear hunting, two completely different animals.
 
Most true ELR shooters and hunters use a braked rifle system , so recoil is a non issue .
In fact at our range the vast majority of Hunting rifles we see are braked these days .
Cat
 
The thing is blakeyboy, your using the same weight of bullet for each so of coarse the longer for caliber bullet will have the higher BC and SD. The 270 can still shoot 150 gr bullet at 2900+ fps easily with RL26. With a custom barrel with a 1-8 twist, berger makes 170gr bullet. Also with 140 gr bullet I can get 3100 fps with RL26. Things can change pretty quick :)
 
308 is cheaper and more available

308 has superior ballistics within 500-600 meters, only after that does the 6.5 take over

6.5 has less recoil

308 can reliably kill heavy game, I don’t think I’d trust a 6.5 for moose or elk or dangerous game

Both are capable of great accuracy

I’d say for a gun that is strictly for hunting and nothing else, 308 is superior

If you want to hunt and shoot long range, then go with 308

If you ONLY want to shoot long distance, use 6.5 as it will be superior at extreme distances
 
6.5s have been reliably laying out big game for over a century and bullets are better now than they've ever been.

I can't tell the difference between a 6.5 CM wound and a 308 wound TBH. I don't know where one would get the idea it can't kill heavy game reliably or as reliably as a 308 anyway.
 
Joel said:
6.5s have been reliably laying out big game for over a century and bullets are better now than they've ever been.

I can't tell the difference between a 6.5 CM wound and a 308 wound TBH. I don't know where one would get the idea it can't kill heavy game reliably or as reliably as a 308 anyway.
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you haven't seen either ..
 
TikkaFanboy said:
308 is cheaper and more available

308 has superior ballistics within 500-600 meters, only after that does the 6.5 take over

6.5 has less recoil

308 can reliably kill heavy game, I don’t think I’d trust a 6.5 for moose or elk or dangerous game

Both are capable of great accuracy

I’d say for a gun that is strictly for hunting and nothing else, 308 is superior

If you want to hunt and shoot long range, then go with 308

If you ONLY want to shoot long distance, use 6.5 as it will be superior at extreme distances
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Pretty good summary right here
 
I'm scratchin my head about the 308 being the clear better hunting rifle but...yeah haha
 
pete dobinson said:
In my hornady fourth edition ballistic manual a 308 with 180 grain bullet at 2600 fps will have the same energy at 300 yds as a 6.5 140 grain bullet at 2700 fps at 200 yds. These are max loads for both cartridges. The max charge in 6.5 was from a 6.5x57 in my manual.
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I was going to say try both with a 130 in a 308 and 6.5cr but the 130 is discontinued in 308.
Next up a 150gr bc of 415, 308 at 2950fps 1820 lbs at 300yds 600yds 1085 lbs
The ###xx 140gr bc of 520 6.5cr at 2700fps 1547 lbs at 300yds 600 yds 1020 lbs
 
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pete dobinson said:
The thing is blakeyboy, your using the same weight of bullet for each so of coarse the longer for caliber bullet will have the higher BC and SD. The 270 can still shoot 150 gr bullet at 2900+ fps easily with RL26. With a custom barrel with a 1-8 twist, berger makes 170gr bullet. Also with 140 gr bullet I can get 3100 fps with RL26. Things can change pretty quick :)
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Did you do similar compares with the heavier sleek options in 6.5? Point of apples to apples comparisons so the entire audience can get perspective is to take saami spec off the shelf against each other. You can hot rod all options. There are bullets over 150 in 6.5 that are way slippery and do the exact same thing to 150 270, but even still there’s the 147. And I chose a really respectable premium load in the 270 to compare in this instance. Remember I love the 270, have no issue giving its dues.
 
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iron cat said:
Most true ELR shooters and hunters use a braked rifle system , so recoil is a non issue .
In fact at our range the vast majority of Hunting rifles we see are braked these days .
Cat
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Ya, target gear doing target things. No brake on your 303, hunting gear doing hunting things. I ran brakes on 7rm, 300wm, ultralight 270 wsm, even put one on a custom Grendel. Great at the range, worst thing ever for hunting, doesn’t take long to learn those lessons. As we agreed on gear for target shooting and hunting, two totally different animals. So now I only build and use hunting gear because that’s my number 1. If I liked a lot of range time and wanted to play really long I’d build a rig for that, it would not go hunting though. Been there, got the shirt. Like you, I learned the difference between the two set ups by doing. There are a lot of hero’s out there dragging their braked elr target gear in the field thinking they will be consistent elrh studs but we both know that’s never gonna be the truth. Very few people can/will do it consistently. They will learn the same things we did by doing lol. Tags are way too valuable to play range star and all the variables that reduce chances past .75 seconds tof, and for most that’s more like .5 seconds. Get closer, it’s hunting, not pretend sniper. Your walls and freezer will be more full.
 
Suppose I have to agree with going to a 30 cal for deer, since I am too...But its a 300 Blackout lol. 6.5 CM beats em up a bit too much for me.
 
blakeyboy said:
Did you do similar compares with the heavier sleek options in 6.5? Point of apples to apples comparisons so the entire audience can get perspective is to take saami spec off the shelf against each other. You can hot rod all options. There are bullets over 150 in 6.5 that are way slippery and do the exact same thing to 150 270, but even still there’s the 147. And I chose a really respectable premium load in the 270 to compare in this instance. Remember I love the 270, have no issue giving its dues.
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Show me the velocity a ‘hot rodded’ 6.5Cr is making at safe pressures compared to a .270 at safe pressures for the same weights. There is utterly and truly, no replacement for displacement.

Or said simply, physics are laws not generalities. More powder, more bore, more speed at equivalent weights. The only way around that in 6.5 is more pressure.

6.5 is a great compromise, the low-mid range of suitable big game bullet weights, providing low-mid range recoil, and generally excellent BCs. The BCs are now available in all the standard bores however as bullet development exploded this past decade.

Now it’s just choose your preferred compromises, these days for me that’s .257, .30, .375.
 
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Somehow less powder and a smaller bore defies physics ........... it's simply magic. :) I also like the 6.5 CM and the 260 rem for that matter, there's no doubt they're efficient cartridges. The 270 still has the edge though, like previously mentioned it has more powder and a bigger bore.
 
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