32days and 1472$ later

I love it, i hear it from everyone. do you people not realize what these things are worth before you buy them from the manufacturer? obviously they are not worth $3000 not even worth $1500 for that matter. They probably cost less than $200 to make(think about it). if someone else can get these from the manufacturer, sell them and still make hundreds $$ why can't our canadian guys. it's called price negotitions. s
Sorry to sound so harsh but i'm sick and tired of the run around. We get screwed at every corner. I don't understand it all but the $$ figures don't lie.

OK, you start making Surgeon actions at the same tolerances as Surgeons from the same steel for $200 and I'll buy 100 of them for $400. Tomorrow. No kidding. I'm waiting. Still waiting.
Anyway.............................

Obtunded,

good call.. because all of us KNOW as soon as you sold him something he would complain of the price ad how he could have got it cheaper....

without supporting canadian dealers we are cutting out own throats.... with obama in office we are just going to bleed out faster as the USA becomes more protectionist.

I'll happily support a Canadian manufacturer to my grave if they are selling a good product for a fair price. Dealers too, again if they are a fair price. For the record, I dealt with Obtunded and recieved great service, and I am happy to pay a little extra so he keeps doing it for me. Buy time I spend my time doing all the paper, and phone calls and such, he's already earned his money. Now paying anything more than $2000 tax in for a Surgeon.....I'll just buy another Stiller from Ian. I like Stillers.......................
 
USPS is FAR cheaper ( but illegal) to ship stuff across the border that with a bonded air freight carrier, as us dealers (highway robbers) have to legally ship freight with in order to avoid harsh fines or loosing our licenses.
The freight and brokerage add SIGNIFANTLY to an import cost that gets the product into Canada through legal means for those of us who live too far from a commercial border crossing to get to.

I think it is statements like the above that gets you the reputation you do. You always seem to try to make it sound like every single person that doesn't go through a Cdn supplier for his/her purchase has done so illegally.

I think it would be better served to explain EXACTLY what parts and bits are illegal to send through USPS if you are going to make such a bold statement.

I know for a fact that Barrels, Scopes, Bullets, Cases and many other non-volatile items, IF LEGALLY EXPORTED (ie. all proper steps taken and paperwork taken care of), are far from illegal to send via USPS.

If it is the action itself that is illegal to ship via USPS then your point on this matter may be valid (I don't know the laws on shipping actions) but should have been stated as such.

I myself have imported 2 NF scopes from the US with all the proper paperwork and footwork done and did save myself around $600 total on the 2 purchases when our dollar was good and before NF put the kibosh on US retailers selling outside their regions.

Nothing illegal or shady was done, but when I had discussed it on this forum with other members before I went ahead, you were the first person to jump in and tell me how duty (which is a fallacy) and all the other associated fees would end up costing me hundreds more than buying it from someone like yourself (must have been part of your "trying to EDUCATE others" bit)

I will be the first one to buy from a Cdn retailer IF they have the product I want at a good price. I just today purchased my 4th Krieger barrel from Ian in less than a year. His prices are not over inflated, he is a pleasure to deal with and is the first to jump in and share his knowledge to help those who ask.

Being helpful and polite goes a long way, using obvious scare tactics do not.

I did not make this reply to "Trash" anyone, just to point out that you claim to try and help people avoid the strong arm of the law coming down on them when in fact it is usually a scare tactic you are using to try and stop someone from importing it themselves. This is the way I perceive it anyway.
 
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I think it is statements like the above that gets you the reputation you do. You always seem to try to make it sound like every single person that doesn't go through a Cdn supplier for his/her purchase has done so illegally.

I think it would be better served to explain EXACTLY what parts and bits are illegal to send through USPS if you are going to make such a bold statement.

I know for a fact that Barrels, Scopes, Bullets, Cases and many other non-volatile items, IF LEGALLY EXPORTED (ie. all proper steps taken and paperwork taken care of), are far from illegal to send via USPS.

If it is the action itself that is illegal to ship via USPS then your point on this matter may be valid (I don't know the laws on shipping actions) but should have been stated as such.

I myself have imported 2 NF scopes from the US with all the proper paperwork and footwork done and did save myself around $600 total on the 2 purchases when our dollar was good and before NF put the kibosh on retailers selling outside their regions.

Nothing illegal or shady was done, but when I had discussed it on this forum with other members before I went ahead, you were the first person to jump in and tell me how duty (which is a fallacy) and all the other associated fees would end up costing me hundreds more than buying it from someone like yourself (must have been part of your "trying to EDUCATE others" bit)

I will be the first one to buy from a Cdn retailer IF they have the product I want at a good price. I just today purchased my 4th Krieger barrel from Ian in less than a year. His prices are not over inflated, he is a pleasure to deal with and is the first to jump in and share his knowledge to help those who ask.

Nothing wrong at all in my mind about being known as a dealer who is honest and imports ALL of his companies firearms and related parts 100% LEGALLY. It keeps me in good stead with the various LE agencies I do work for as well as keeps the 2 federal governments I work under OFF my case.

Just for YOU I have edited the post to say ACTIONS as that is what we were talking about. Apparently you missed the part about what the thread was about. So I stand corrected and edited my post, God forbid a person should use a wrong word.:rolleyes:

I have no problem with guys importing stuff legally. I have tried to help EDUCATE those trying to do so, apparently including youself and apparently you chose to ignore some information considering duty to be a fallacy.

Just to set you straight, "DUTY IS NOT A FALLACY" your Nightforce scopes, unless they are 1 of the compact models that are just currently in production, are MADE IN JAPAN. SO if you did not pay duty on them, as you claim, (because it is a fallacy), you must have declared the country of origin falsely (which IS illegal by the way). Nightforce scopes except for the compacts are made in Japan, look at your scope as I know you won't believe me. Being made in Japan means that they are NOT imported free from duty. So it would appear you are WRONG, your importation was NOT done entirely within the laws!!!

More than likely you had Canada Post do your brokerage, which is fine and legal assuming the shipper put the correct value on the declaration as well as the correct country of origin, but they can NOT do brokerage for amounts exceeding $1600.00 CDN, which then raises another point, knowing that most NF scopes are worth more than that value, so Canada Post could NOT do your brokerage, did YOU fill out the B3 forms yourself? If so and a CBSA officer inspected the scopes and found that on the scopes it says Made in Japan but you put down as Made in USA, you would have lost the scopes and been handed a $2000.00 fine for making a false declaration.
Most dealers employ brokers to deal with the customs paperwork, this costs money as well as the brokerage firms also are in business to make money. Brokerage fees are NOT a fallacy either. These fees get passed along just as duty does to the end user.

Self admittedly you claim you don't know the laws regarding shipping so, any questions???????
:bangHead::bangHead::bangHead::bangHead:
 
I'm sorry you feel that way... certainly was not my intent to step on Sandrero or beat him up... what I thought I was doing was trying to inform him of the legalities, not only to assist him in future imports he might do but also to educate others who were reading his posts and could easily have been steered in the wrong direction... a direction that could have gotten them in trouble.

Mark

It could have very well not been your intent to beat up Sandrero.
The point still stands, dealers in general, come across as if the average person is wholly incapable of doing such complex matters as importation of gun related wares on their own.

Education of the unwashed CGN masses by dealers often appears condescending.

Again, your intentions could have been most benign, yet they certainly don't appear that way, generally.

I am not flaming here, just pointing out the obvious. Maybe.
 
Self admittedly you claim you don't know the laws regarding shipping so, any questions???????

No...you are wrong sir. I admittedly claimed I didn't know the shipping laws on ACTIONS. Maybe you should read my post again.

Again you yell "YOU DID IT ILLEGALLY" and "YOU MADE FALSE DECLARATIONS" without knowing the details of my transaction.

As for my "Illegal" activity. Since all your assumptions are wrong, and we all know the old adage about making assumptions, I will gladly share the details to put you at rest.

Scope costs were $1372USD each (our dollar was higher than theirs at the time) so no need for any extra forms other than import cert since I purchased on 2 separate occasions months apart. (And yes, the original import cert was filled out for 2 scopes incase I decided to get one in the future and save myself the task of filling out another one.)

No false declarations were made PERIOD. Everything was done BY THE BOOK to avoid any problems.

Yes I am aware that any package worth more than $1600 coming into Canada has it's own issues, but, taking this particular issue back to the OP's thread (of which your comments about USPS being illegal to use)....I would fathom a guess by the title of his thread "32days and 1472$ later" that he did not need to fill out said forms as his purchase too was under $1600 and could have CP do his brokerage for him as well (I doubt he would have received it otherwise). Unless of course you can not send an action via USPS and as I stated I do not know the laws on shipping actions.

I do not/will not ever condone the illegal importation of firearm related equipment from the US into Canada. If the the OP had his action sent USPS, and it is in fact illegal to do so (not due to cost as stated above) then this thread should be locked and deleted for the discussion of illegal activities.

Is it in fact illegal to send an action via USPS or is the illegal activity based on a $1600 value?
 
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Is it in fact illegal to send an action via USPS
Yes it is illegal to ship firearms [this includes recievers]from the US into Canada using the postal systems [USPS / Canada Post] you are required to use a courier [Air Canada is an approved carrier] to import firearms into Canada or use a Local US FFL that can deliver the reciever to the border for you to pick up and transport the reciever into Canada .
 
No...you are wrong sir. I admittedly claimed I didn't know the shipping laws on ACTIONS. Maybe you should read my post again.

Again you yell "YOU DID IT ILLEGALLY" and "YOU MADE FALSE DECLARATIONS" without knowing the details of my transaction.

As for my "Illegal" activity. Since all your assumptions are wrong, and we all know the old adage about making assumptions, I will gladly share the details to put you at rest.

Scope costs were $1372USD each (our dollar was higher than theirs at the time) so no need for any extra forms other than import cert since I purchased on 2 separate occasions months apart. (And yes, the original import cert was filled out for 2 scopes incase I decided to get one in the future and save myself the task of filling out another one.)

No false declarations were made PERIOD. Everything was done BY THE BOOK to avoid any problems.

Yes I am aware that any package worth more than $1600 coming into Canada has it's own issues, but, taking this particular issue back to the OP's thread (of which your comments about USPS being illegal to use)....I would fathom a guess by the title of his thread "32days and 1472$ later" that he did not need to fill out said forms as his purchase too was under $1600 and could have CP do his brokerage for him as well (I doubt he would have received it otherwise). Unless of course you can not send an action via USPS and as I stated I do not know the laws on shipping actions.

I do not/will not ever condone the illegal importation of firearm related equipment from the US into Canada. If the the OP had his action sent USPS, and it is in fact illegal to do so (not due to cost as stated above) then this thread should be locked and deleted for the discussion of illegal activities.

Is it in fact illegal to send an action via USPS or is the illegal activity based on a $1600 value?

So the scopes at par were $1372.00 BUT I notice you neglected to reply to the "fallacy" of duty?? So did I hit the nail on the head and you don't want to address that?
 
How about this one. When the $ had been well par I looked at KBC (tool) prices on the USA web site and compared to the CDN web site. They averaged about 40% more. I emailed the president and asked why? I was told Canada was a different market and that was they way it is. (less competition and easier to screw us)

Why are Lee tools more here than in the USA? Don't tell me the Canadian dealer is marking them up more. There is dealer price and then there is dealer price.

A great deal from Redding at the shot show, 1/2 off retail to new dealers, their absolute best price break. Too bad that is still more than Natchez sells for and just a buck or two less that Sinclair charges. Why would anyone sell Redding, in this case, here or in the USA?
 
Just to set you straight, "DUTY IS NOT A FALLACY" your Nightforce scopes, unless they are 1 of the compact models that are just currently in production, are MADE IN JAPAN. SO if you did not pay duty on them, as you claim, (because it is a fallacy), you must have declared the country of origin falsely (which IS illegal by the way).

I thought that Nightforce scopes are assembled in USA? This is according to their website.
 
So the scopes at par were $1372.00 BUT I notice you neglected to reply to the "fallacy" of duty?? So did I hit the nail on the head and you don't want to address that?


I did not incur ANY duty charges, on either scope. If I was supposed to be charged and they missed it.....oh well. Nothing Illegal done on my part.....TWICE.

I have read several people's stories who have done their own importation of scopes and have yet to see anyone say they were charged Duty. Quite a few people have interpreted UPS Brokerage fees and/or Taxes as duty, but after talking to them it was determined that there was not a duty charged.

After purchasing well over $10,000 in Canon camera gear (read Made in Japan) from the US over the course of a couple of years I was never charged duty on item coming across the border. All legally declared for cost and contents.
 
I thought that Nightforce scopes are assembled in USA? This is according to their website.

This only applies to products costing more than $1600.00 customs wants to know if any contervaling duties apply IE an item manufactured in the US does not mean that the entire product was manufactured using materails made in the USA .Steels plastics and host of other parts may have been manufactured outside of the USA and assembled in the USA to make a product that is what Canada Customs is after and assigns duties to the parts not made in the USA
 
This is a great topic but lets not get to carried away by letting tempers get the best of you .Relax you will live longer

Big surprise. This thread was refreshingly interesting until the same old "you're going to jail" threat antics showed up :bangHead: Justify the "legal" effort and costs all you want, just don't expect us to believe we should pay DOUBLE what it goes for in the U.S. just so we can support a canadian dealer or two who are a rip-off, okay ?
 
Not that I think we should not support Canadian dealers, but if some one can import the item in question for half the price and time, more power to him/her. Dont want to piss off any dealers before im even age of buying a gun:D, but do the additional fees to import actualy add up to a generaly rediculous price over the MSRP? If so, I am quite suprised!

By the way, not to stay off topic, that is a beautiful action!
 
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I forgot the best one:

If your import totals more than $1600 CDN, you are required to complete a Customs B3 Form. I will leave it to you to figure this one out, including commodity coding and how the exchange is calculated.

The alternative is to use a shipping company or customs broker and you can pay them the 8% of value to broker your shipment for you

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/b3-3/b3-3-fill-04b.pdf

Just to add my 2 cents, you only have to complete a B3 if you are importing goods as part of a commercial enterprise (dealers) but not if you're the average consumer (mom+pop)... they have to pay any duties and taxes owing on a B15. It would be like saying you need to complete a B3 if you bought a US$2000 laptop... YES if you were going to resell it but NO if it's for your own personal use.

Oh, and sometimes goods made outside the USA are still duty free and that may be why the CBSA didn't collect any duty on the scopes... I know that certain Japanese optics (camera lenses) are duty free so it wouldn't be a far leap to think that scopes might be classified similarly.

Hope this sheds some light on the B3 issue... interesting thread.

:) | olaBoots
 
olaboots, do you work for the CBSA?

No - I used to have a small internet business (desktop publishing) where I learned all about importing...almost everything is cheaper in USA.

I used to use a broker until I figured out how to do it myself. Dealt with all the Canada Post / UPS brokerage hassles / expenses and decided that it couldn't be too hard. I was getting tired of being charged a $20 brokerage fee from UPS to clear something that was duty free anyways.

I used to bring my shipments in once a week and pay on the normal side (mom+pop) until one day I had more that $1600 worth of stuff...boom - over to the commercial side. I never imported anything that needed import/export permits - just a bit of GST and sometimes some duty. That's how I learned that optics (scanners, lenses, etc from Japan) don't always attract duty.

:) | olaBoots
 
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