.338 Ladder test-Scope checks out post #72

Kelly Timoffee

Kelly Timoffee

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I know some were curious about my next findings.I haven't been able to get out for a while but today was decent conditions so I decided to go try again.

I now am trying Lapua Scenars 300gr with H1000 powder.I am under 10 thou. off the lands and fit the mag as well.This is an error , I am actually touching the lands I was going from memory but just checked my records.

I removed the Signature Zee rings AND riser blocks.

I installed a set of Leupold extra high 30mm rings.

It was about a 10-15km/hr steady wind which was nice for cooling the rifle , over cast and about 22C.

Here is the ladder test results:



There was no horizontal stringing like I had previous and I didn't have the large vertical separation also.

I shot 5 factory Hornady loads first off then checked all fasteners and then continued.

I am pleased with this results.

No chronograph today , didn't want to use with the wind, I will chrono my next test groups.

95 was not a flinch or pull, that is where it landed.

Oh, and a coyote got a free pass while I was leaving my spot! :) I still had some factory loads left.
 
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Why do people keep asking questions that appear to be obvious?

Your only horizontal string is 90-92. Do a bit more testing in this area, then fine tune with distance off lands.

Maybe I'm missing something?

I personally don't do testing like the above but I can understand it's reasoning.
 
What questions were being asked here?

This is in addition to a previous ladder/load test where a fault that wasn't obvious with either me or the equipment seemed to be causing gremlins.That has been rectified hence the post.

I know where to do my next batch of testing, it is obvious! ;)

I used to test the traditional way with groups but that was very time consuming.Here I have an area to focus on with only shooting 13 rounds which would have been 65 my old way as I do five shot groups usually.

Shibby! said:
Why do people keep asking questions that appear to be obvious?

Your only horizontal string is 90-92. Do a bit more testing in this area, then fine tune with distance off lands.

Maybe I'm missing something?

I personally don't do testing like the above but I can understand it's reasoning.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the update Kelly. Glad to see you got the gremlin sorted out. My load with the 300gr otm I've been playing with lately is bang on 92gr H1000.
 
Tonight I loaded 5 @ 91gr touching the lands , 5 @ 91 0.012" off , and the same with 92gr.Hopefully I can do those during the week if I get time.

kman300 said:
Thanks for the update Kelly. Glad to see you got the gremlin sorted out. My load with the 300gr otm I've been playing with lately is bang on 92gr H1000.
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Kelly Timoffee said:
What questions were being asked here?

This is in addition to a previous ladder/load test where a fault that wasn't obvious with either me or the equipment seemed to be causing gremlins.That has been rectified hence the post.

I know where to do my next batch of testing, it is obvious! ;)

I used to test the traditional way with groups but that was very time consuming.Here I have an area to focus on with only shooting 13 rounds which would have been 65 my old way as I do five shot groups usually.
Click to expand...

The problem with the ladder is that it 100% depends ability to shoot 100% of the time.

Considering some of those rounds could be as far as 1-1.5" off their mark, the ladder test can and will give false info often.

It is a tool, but not something to be considered concrete.

A few more rounds at 90-92 should be used to confirm your findings.

I'd personally shoot a .2gr interval between those at a set distance off lands (depending on your projectiles used), and go from there.

I do a lot of testing though and enjoy it. I can see 338 being stupidly expensive though.
 
I have been at this for that long but I can see some real benefits to doing a test like you shown. I've never seen it illustrated like that. Is this ladder testing better performed at 200yards or is 100 also acceptable?
 
It is actually best as far as you can and keep bullets on paper, 100 is pretty close to see horizontal changes due to velocity/charge weight, these obviously become more apparent the further you test.

Once you find a horizontal grouping or node, then you can fine tune with more ladder testing(further away of course as you can see the close proximity of the 90,91,92 charge weights) OR groups.



deerfarmer said:
I have been at this for that long but I can see some real benefits to doing a test like you shown. I've never seen it illustrated like that. Is this ladder testing better performed at 200yards or is 100 also acceptable?
Click to expand...
 
i have only done the ladder twice, once at 100yd and the other at 200yd. I found at 100 there wasn't quite enough difference to tell if there was any nodes or not. 200 yardi found was much easier to tell if there was nodes showing or not. I did not try 2 or more ladder tests at 200 with the same loads to see if i could duplicate the ladders,next time. Does any body else shoot two or more ladders on the same day to check nodes?
 
good to see your having much more success with this with a new set of rings! should be well on your way now


Shibby! said:
The problem with the ladder is that it 100% depends ability to shoot 100% of the time.

Considering some of those rounds could be as far as 1-1.5" off their mark, the ladder test can and will give false info often.
Click to expand...

yup and so can shooting groups..... its a HELL of a lot cheaper and faster to double shoot a ladder test to see if they match up, then it is to shoot 1 or even 2 5 shot groups of every powder charge....

i just finished my load development for my .223.. not counting the sight in shots. from 1st shot to final load 25 shots fired... seems alot easier then shooting 50-100 shots of 5 shot groups
 
ultimate_monkey said:
yup and so can shooting groups..... its a HELL of a lot cheaper and faster to double shoot a ladder test to see if they match up, then it is to shoot 1 or even 2 5 shot groups of every powder charge....

i just finished my load development for my .223.. not counting the sight in shots. from 1st shot to final load 25 shots fired... seems alot easier then shooting 50-100 shots of 5 shot groups
Click to expand...

Thing is 90-92 gr is a massive change. There are plenty of improvements found in that region yet. It is a forgiving node though. Shockingly large if 2gr doesn't affect much or any change. I've never worked on a 338.

Let us know how the 91's work with distance off lands variations.
 
Ok here is todays results, kind of so-so IMO but definitely some positive parts.

Here are the 4 targets @ 200 yards:



Note: I forgot to make my scope correction thus resulting in the first shot being off target.

Here are the targets individually and velocities:

91gr - touching the lands - 2804,2804,2830,2803,2805 - This group although not great could be worked as the high shot and miss were not shot error.



91gr - 0.012" jump - 2804,2809,2786,2804,2826 - Without doubt the best group of the test.



92gr - touching the lands - 2851,2850,2845,2835,2830



92gr - 0.012" jump 2848,2845,2849,2822



The best group measured: 1.500" - 0.338 = 1.162"



For a factory Savage barrel I am content with the results shown here today.I may fiddle with a bit more COAL changes but not much.Also I am satisfied with those velocities with a 300gr bullet and not over the top on powder charge.
 
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