moosinaroundv2
New member
- Location
- Central Interior BC
Owned both chamberings, tried a couple different 338's in different manf's. Still have the 300 win mag, passed on the 338's! Moosin
338 vs 300 win?
- Thread starter Longshot870
- Start date
Lots of lurkers on CGN.
Yes, absolutely.
Okay, you've thrown time into the equation and I know I can't match speed with the big gun versus the small one. Simply coming down out of recoil will eat up more time even if you do everything else the same...and I'm not fast and am completely aware of that.
The competition you propose is more between two people than it is between one shooter comparing his own abilities with big vs. small guns.
Lol, I'm not very competitive by nature. I don't care how well or poorly others shoot; I compete against myself. And, in any case, this idea pits one person against another, and really says nothing about either person's performance with different rifles. But for a fast accurate first shot...no second shot required or allowed...I'd say that the last sentence above is completely wrong, unless speed counts for more than one shot.
My father once said something after watching a friendly competition between a few childhood friends. My brother had made three hits after quickly firing 8 or 9 times, while I had made three hits in about the same length of time firing three shots. My dad just smirked and said to my bro "You do realize that you can't miss fast enough to win?"
Yeah, okay, that's simply not an accurate statement. While I haven't measured the times involved, a significant chunk of my shooting practice consists of starting with the rifle held at low ready or even just held crosswise in a comfortable carry position, and then throwing it to my shoulder, acquiring a comfortable stance and hold and sight picture, and squeezing off a round. I usually include cycling the bolt with the gun remaining shouldered and my eye still looking through the scope, and firing off a second round.
I absolutely know I'm not fast on the second shot, but I am reasonably quick with my first one. And, again, I'm not measuring specific numbers but I do feel that for the first shot, I'm every bit as quick with a .375 as with a .22lr...and to a hunter, the first shot is everything.
Honestly, gun fit is more important, IMHO, than the cartridge. To be a fair comparison, we'd have to be talking about similar styles of guns, with similar types of sighting equipment. No question I'd squeeze off my first shot with a scoped .375 that fits me reasonably well significantly faster than a .22 with open sights.
For that all-important first shot...can you explain why exactly a big gun should be less accurate than a small one? Recoil occurs almost exclusively after the bullet has left the barrel; so how can it affect accuracy? The only possible explanation exists entirely in the space between the shooter's ears.
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We’ve strayed a bit, oh well.
I’m a hunter who likes to shoot and I hit the range about 3 times a week in fair weather. I take a few rifles to rotate thru and the last thing I do before a rifle goes into the truck is plunk down on my arse and shoot 3-4 quick shots on 3-400 yard steel.
I guess I don’t own a big gun because if I’m hitting better with one over another it will be the platform not the calibre imo.
A finicky lightweight 375 cured my flinch a while ago, shot fliers out of that sob all summer thinking it was me, until it was re bedded and tightened right up.
I think Joel and jjohnwm a both right to a degree, my truth is closer to jjohn.
I’m a hunter who likes to shoot and I hit the range about 3 times a week in fair weather. I take a few rifles to rotate thru and the last thing I do before a rifle goes into the truck is plunk down on my arse and shoot 3-4 quick shots on 3-400 yard steel.
I guess I don’t own a big gun because if I’m hitting better with one over another it will be the platform not the calibre imo.
A finicky lightweight 375 cured my flinch a while ago, shot fliers out of that sob all summer thinking it was me, until it was re bedded and tightened right up.
I think Joel and jjohnwm a both right to a degree, my truth is closer to jjohn.
The question is obviously still bothering him. - dan
300 RUM & 338 RUM. Either or
Speaking of recoil and shooting small guns better, the issue is mental. Just let the rifle rip, assume every shot will be like a 22rf. No flinch, no getting ready, just stay relaxed and assume there will be zero recoil. Then when it fires just let the rifle move you. Don't try and stop it, don't tense up. You are going to move the opposite way of the bullet and you need to accept that. Just keep the gun at natural as possible on the follow through.
I own an 8.5 pound 460 weatherby, 8 pound 500 Jeffery. A few others but those stand out as the most recoil.
Here is a 8 pound 500 Jeffery. Firing 3 rounds ( just yesterday i converted the mag to hold 4, and I can fit one in the chamber (4+1)) sure I was aiming at the dirt but I could have slowed down and hit what I wanted out to a hundred meters with iron sights
I own an 8.5 pound 460 weatherby, 8 pound 500 Jeffery. A few others but those stand out as the most recoil.
Here is a 8 pound 500 Jeffery. Firing 3 rounds ( just yesterday i converted the mag to hold 4, and I can fit one in the chamber (4+1)) sure I was aiming at the dirt but I could have slowed down and hit what I wanted out to a hundred meters with iron sights
The OP needs to try rifles in both cartridges, of make and model he is interested in, and determine which he shoots better. Only he can make this decision. And if he doesn't like either one, and is still interested in a magnum, he can try a 7mm Rem Mag.
(Or any regular 30-06 case based cartridge in the calibers mentioned, such as the 30-06 itself, or 338-06 or 280 Rem...heck throw the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 on too just to give a little more thump from a larger, heavier bullet.)
He'll then now what his recoil tolerance is, and which make and model of rifle he can shoot better.
This can be a trial, to find rifles that one can try...but buy some ammo and some gun stores will let you try rifles on their used rack (after all, they are hoping to make a sale (used or new), and when you invest in some ammo, they are more likely to let you try them). Otherwise, he can try friends rifles, or perhaps his range has rifles available he can shoot?
He also needs to determine exactly what velocity and energy figures he needs for the moose and/or elk, at the typical distance he will need to shoot where he will be hunting most, or likely to be hunting if travelling and hunting with an outfitter for that dream hunt. With the modern bonded and monometal bullets of today, that means a minimum of 1500 ft lbs of retained energy for moose and elk, at the animal, for reliable penetration and quick, clean kills. With the older cup and core style bullets, I still prefer the older recommendation of 2000 ft lbs of energy for elk. For the 300 Win Mag, that 180 gr bullet is still packing this amount of energy well past 500 yards. A 200 gr bullet will still be packing over 2000 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards.
For the 338 Win Mag, that 210 gr bullet is still packing this amount of energy at 500 yards. The 225 gr bullet is still packing just over 2000 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards
And does he have the experience and/or ability to shoot at 500 yards?
Or the place to practice this to become proficient at this distance with these cartridges?
I have taken a fair number of moose and elk over the past 38 years, and have not only used both cartridges (as well as the equivalent 300 WSM), and a variety of other cartridges, and to date, I have only shot one elk at 475 yards, and I underestimated the range by 75 yards when I took the shot). An my longest shot on moose has been 225 yards. The only one I felt afterwards that I was undergunned on, was a cow elk at 370 yards with a 6.5x55. I finished her with a friend's 35 Whelen, when my first shot that got one lung didn't kill her quickly.
As I hunt a wide variety of terrain and habitat types, where shots are measured in feet, to hundreds of yards, my average shot distance is just 132 yards.
Do I need a magnum?; No. Do I want a magnum?; Sometimes.
I still own a few, and enjoy hunting with them, as I have hedged my capacity should I need to make a longer than average shot. And when it comes to elk, I like having that extra energy, as a rut-crazed bull elk has a tenacity for life that few other animals on North America can match, on top of the densest bone of any animal in NA, that requires extra energy and mass to punch through that heavy shoulder bone and still reach the vitals of the shot is less than perfect. And on shots that do not hit the central nervous system, the larger, heavier bullets with more energy have performed more consistently for quicker kills on heart/lung shots on the 20 plus elk I have taken over the years.
(Or any regular 30-06 case based cartridge in the calibers mentioned, such as the 30-06 itself, or 338-06 or 280 Rem...heck throw the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 on too just to give a little more thump from a larger, heavier bullet.)
He'll then now what his recoil tolerance is, and which make and model of rifle he can shoot better.
This can be a trial, to find rifles that one can try...but buy some ammo and some gun stores will let you try rifles on their used rack (after all, they are hoping to make a sale (used or new), and when you invest in some ammo, they are more likely to let you try them). Otherwise, he can try friends rifles, or perhaps his range has rifles available he can shoot?
He also needs to determine exactly what velocity and energy figures he needs for the moose and/or elk, at the typical distance he will need to shoot where he will be hunting most, or likely to be hunting if travelling and hunting with an outfitter for that dream hunt. With the modern bonded and monometal bullets of today, that means a minimum of 1500 ft lbs of retained energy for moose and elk, at the animal, for reliable penetration and quick, clean kills. With the older cup and core style bullets, I still prefer the older recommendation of 2000 ft lbs of energy for elk. For the 300 Win Mag, that 180 gr bullet is still packing this amount of energy well past 500 yards. A 200 gr bullet will still be packing over 2000 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards.
For the 338 Win Mag, that 210 gr bullet is still packing this amount of energy at 500 yards. The 225 gr bullet is still packing just over 2000 ft lbs of energy at 500 yards
And does he have the experience and/or ability to shoot at 500 yards?
Or the place to practice this to become proficient at this distance with these cartridges?
I have taken a fair number of moose and elk over the past 38 years, and have not only used both cartridges (as well as the equivalent 300 WSM), and a variety of other cartridges, and to date, I have only shot one elk at 475 yards, and I underestimated the range by 75 yards when I took the shot). An my longest shot on moose has been 225 yards. The only one I felt afterwards that I was undergunned on, was a cow elk at 370 yards with a 6.5x55. I finished her with a friend's 35 Whelen, when my first shot that got one lung didn't kill her quickly.
As I hunt a wide variety of terrain and habitat types, where shots are measured in feet, to hundreds of yards, my average shot distance is just 132 yards.
Do I need a magnum?; No. Do I want a magnum?; Sometimes.
I still own a few, and enjoy hunting with them, as I have hedged my capacity should I need to make a longer than average shot. And when it comes to elk, I like having that extra energy, as a rut-crazed bull elk has a tenacity for life that few other animals on North America can match, on top of the densest bone of any animal in NA, that requires extra energy and mass to punch through that heavy shoulder bone and still reach the vitals of the shot is less than perfect. And on shots that do not hit the central nervous system, the larger, heavier bullets with more energy have performed more consistently for quicker kills on heart/lung shots on the 20 plus elk I have taken over the years.
I've shot this rifle about 100 times now. It's easy to get 3" groups offhand with iron sights at 100m, that video was a function test when I first built it. But there is no pain and no flinch. Just aim and shoot.
Where? Ima turn it into a Creedmoore bashing thread.
Kidding, I enjoy the banter we create with varied opinions. You could separate cartridges into about 3 groups and the best cartridge within each group is matter of opinion.
Longer range 300wm. Any distance I am happy with, 338wm. I had a Savage in 338wm but got rid of it because it was overkill. 30-06 is a beast, I moved down to a 308 this year because I am retired and I have "mechanic's shoulder" and a 308 will kill anything out here.
And still have almost identical recoil as generated by the 30-06, but speaking from experience, the mind can convince us of anything.
moosinaroundv2
New member
- Location
- Central Interior BC
either or, with a brake and cushy recoil pad!! Oh, and your money for ammo!! Think RL 26 would work in the RUM's? moosin300 RUM & 338 RUM. Either or
338 if you reload, 300 win if you just buy factory ammo, more choices. Most elk of mine have been taken with a 6.5 caliber round. Although I do tend to always take the 300 RUM, 338RCM, or 375 Ruger with me as well. Just tend to always reach for the old 6.5. If it's a good chance at a long shot, trusty 300 RUM gets grabbed for the extra horsepower downrange.
Can't go wrong with either, bullet choice is more of a factor than the cartridge at that point.
Can't go wrong with either, bullet choice is more of a factor than the cartridge at that point.
Yes it’s does and H1000 did too .
