338 vs 300 win?

conor_90 said:
Evanguy, way to edit your post to remove your fantastical statement about your world record offhand groups

While your at it, you should remove the part about your metal butt plate 500 Jeffery abortion causing "no pain".
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Yeah it should have been a 6" gong not 3". The 3" is for shooting with support or scope.

It really doesn't cause any pain at all. A lightweight 12g recoils harder then it. I get it, you don't like recoil and can't imagine someone else not minding it or enjoying it. Just relax and shoot don't worry so much about a little thump. Just make sure you hold it properly, that was a learning curve
 
I love watching these discussions, because invariably someone from the large cartridge crowd makes the assumption that the small cartridge crowd can’t shoot large stuff, and that HAS to be the only reason that a person would choose a smaller cartridge…

As a hunter, I choose a bullet that achieves the results that I want, choose the cartridge that gives the velocity I want so I get the terminal performance at the distance I want, because the bullet is the only interaction we have with the animal (unless of course you muff the shot and then have to run it down and club it to death after running out of shells….) And then I pick the platform that will roll those two variables up together nicely.

Any time a person is “discussing “ a cartridge for killing, rather than a bullet, it tends to indicate that they are talking from an emotional viewpoint rather than a logical one more than anything else to me.
 
This would be the first time anyone has accused me of not liking recoil, but go off.

Please return to reality, I don't need shooting advice from a hippy with 3 big game animals to his name.

If you don't experience the physical sensation of pain when you shoot a big bore rifle you.have extensive nerve damage or serious masochism and you're just enjoying it.

The whole point is the minor pain can be overcome with basic willpower, denying it exists is just a tough guy act.

I'm sure you're a world champion dirt shooter.
 
KodiakHntr said:
I love watching these discussions, because invariably someone from the large cartridge crowd makes the assumption that the small cartridge crowd can’t shoot large stuff, and that HAS to be the only reason that a person would choose a smaller cartridge…
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In this case, the "small cartridge crowd" is not only admitting that they can't shoot large stuff, but accusing everyone else of having the same difficulty.

KodiakHntr said:
As a hunter, I choose a bullet that achieves the results that I want, choose the cartridge that gives the velocity I want so I get the terminal performance at the distance I want, because the bullet is the only interaction we have with the animal (unless of course you muff the shot and then have to run it down and club it to death after running out of shells….) And then I pick the platform that will roll those two variables up together nicely.

Any time a person is “discussing “ a cartridge for killing, rather than a bullet, it tends to indicate that they are talking from an emotional viewpoint rather than a logical one more than anything else to me.
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It's probably safe to say that for every hunter who is out there for entirely practical, pragmatic reasons...there are likely a dozen or more that hunt largely or entirely for emotional reasons. Given that, it's entirely reasonable for them to select their guns and their chamberings emotionally as well.

I have always chosen the guns I have, in the chamberings I have, based upon emotional considerations. The math pros who can quote and recite every possible point of internal/external/terminal ballistics are welcome to do so, and their mental gymnastics usually lead them to a new-ish cartridge that was designed for ultimate performance...although the difference between their effectiveness and that of 50- or 100-year-old designs is not nearly as huge as they like to believe. It's funny how they often love to crow about how their new bullets turn their ABC cartridge into a giant-slayer like the XYZ cartridge. They don't want to use the old big cartridge...but they then labour to turn the new little cartridge into something almost as good...

I'll take a 100+ year old design over a new whizz-bang trendy design because of that heritage, rather than being put off by it. :)
 
conor_90 said:
I feel like if I handed someone a 338 and told them it was a 223 their first shot would hit the same. It might just be that some people are scared of recoil...
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Bumper sticker material, right there! (y)

Then, after that shot, some folks would calmly crank in another round and do it again, and do it just as well as the first shot.

Others would fling the gun down, weeping and wailing and clutching their shoulder and threatening to sue someone for the horrible prank that was played upon them. :)
 
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I have always chosen the guns I have, in the chamberings I have, based upon emotional considerations. The math pros who can quote and recite every possible point of internal/external/terminal ballistics are welcome to do so
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Bingo

I shoot 275 grain RN Speers in my 338 because some old jerk with a cowboy hat did before I was born. I know for a fact 225s work just as well.and shoot flatter.

I've never owned a 300 win mag because every hill (plains?) Billy where I'm from shot them at white tail deer they could have killed with a 22-250 for no reason and then bragged about their recoil tolerance.

I shoot a 338 because when I was 23 a Geologist at a company I worked at told me that was the gun they brought with them to Svalbard for polar bear defence. The only time I've ever seen a polar bear was at the Calgary zoo when I was 7, and I carried bear spray in the field and never went north of 60 let alone the arctic circle.
 
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"I feel like if I handed someone a 338 and told them it was a 223 their first shot would hit the same. It might just be that some people are scared of recoil..."

"Then, after that shot, some folks would calmly crank in another round and do it again, and do it just as well as the first shot."

These 2 quotes sums it up perfectly, don't be scared and it's a mental game.

Also Connor, it's odd for you to think hunting and shooting are the same, shooting is firing 100-300 rounds in an afternoon, hunting is firing one round on a 10 day camping trip
 
jjohnwm said:
In this case, the "small cartridge crowd" is not only admitting that they can't shoot large stuff, but accusing everyone else of having the same difficulty.
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I must have missed the accusation and admittance… I’ll go back and reread the thread, but please feel free to quote that if you can pick it out easily.


…although the difference between their effectiveness and that of 50- or 100-year-old designs is not nearly as huge as they like to believe.
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Hmmmm…. So you are saying it’s possible then, that cartridges can be MORE similar than they are different? EXACTLY what I’ve seen too! A long, heavy for caliber, softer bullet spun from a fast twist barrel will get as much penetration and tissue damage as an older design bullet that weighs more than double thats shot out of a slower twisted rifle! Glad we agree on that!

It's funny how they often love to crow about how their new bullets turn their ABC cartridge into a giant-slayer like the XYZ cartridge. They don't want to use the old big cartridge...but they then labour to turn the new little cartridge into something almost as good...
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Oh… I guess not. So the bullet doesn’t make a difference in reducing the gap that previously existed decades ago between cartridges and their on game performance……..? But didn’t you just say that they are more similar than they are different? Contradictory and confusing, but ok. Fair enough.

I'll take a 100+ year old design over a new whizz-bang trendy design because of that heritage, rather than being put off by it. :)
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THAT part I agree with. Having a reason to use a rifle based on an aspect that makes you happy is a great reason to hunt it. Every handful of years or so I take my late fathers full custom 300 win mag out and kill a bull elk with it, as he was passionate about hunting elk and grizzlies. And, no new whizbang wonder bullet either, just a Winchester white box 180 gr pointed soft point, same as the previous few thousand that went down the bore of that rifle for everything from muskrats to grizzlies.
 
Also Connor, it's odd for you to think hunting and shooting are the same, shooting is firing 100-300 rounds in an afternoon, hunting is firing one round on a 10 day camping trip
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Thanks for clarifying what hunting and shooting are Evvann
 
I fished for sockeye this morning, but apparently I didn't get enough fishing in...

Might go shoot some dirt. Wish I could afford to shoot 300 rounds
 
conor_90 said:
Thanks for clarifying what hunting and shooting are Evvann
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No problem man, you said where I only shot 3 big game animals that some how reflects how I shoot. So I figured I'd clear it up for you because you are thinking hunting and shooting are the same thing.


Why are there double letters in my name?

Also only shoot dirt when you are trying to test the feeding of a rifle you are in the middle of building and it doesn't even have sight on it yet, because why finish the rifle if it doesn't feed. (The 500 Jeffery is know for being very hard to get to feed properly)

And you are telling me you don't spend a few hundred dollars on hobbies/interests a month?
 
For long range shooting my biggest factor is exterior ballistics. Cut the wind drift in half, and every error in wind judgement is also cut in half. Or to put it another way, you can shoot twice as far before windage matters enough to need thinking about for a hunter. Thats a lot of free talent. Differences in mechanical precision or preceived shootability from recoil aren’t going to have much luck beating those kinds of house odds.

For example, my 223 FTR rifle is stupidly accurate and easy to shoot, but still harder to hit with than my 308 FTR rifle which in turn is harder make first round hits with at distance than my long range hunting rifles which are predominately big 7s, and 30s. If recoil was the whole story then it would be easier to hit with the 223 than my 338 Edge that weighs about the same and kicks one hell of a lot more.
 
Why are there double letters in my name?
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I could ask you the same Evann

I'll defer to your expertise in the future. For example I didn't know you had to fire a gun at dirt to see if it fed from the magazine.

I'm learning a lot about hunting and shooting today
 
conor_90 said:
I could ask you the same Evann

I'll defer to your expertise in the future. For example I didn't know you had to fire a gun at dirt to see if it fed from the magazine.

I'm learning a lot about hunting and shooting today
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Oh, I get it. Sorry about that.

And yeah it's good to learn something new everyday

No need to ask me anything you are clearly the smartest man on cgn who has shot the most guns and kill the most big game.

Also firing a gun to test function on a newly built rifle isn't new, that wasn't an accuracy test. I wanted to make sure it worked, make sure head space was correct, I wanted to look at the brass for any issues, I wanted to see it feeding as it work when shooting it and I wanted to see how the butt stock felt and if it needed changes.

Sure I could have waited for the rifle to be done and aim at water jugs or a moving target but I was excited to fire it and see how it came together since it was the first time it could be fired by a person holding it. It was just 3 rounds lol
 
Back to the topic at hand. Even though today I'd lean 300 win, in 2019 I had a great season packing my 338 win mag Ruger m77 African. Shot just as well as any small bore I've owned. I recently bought 5 boxes of 230gr Norma Oryx on sale, just in case I come across another 338 that might speak to me. But for now my 8x68 shooting 224gr at 2840 fps and 200gr at 3050 fps is pretty much the same thing but with more class!

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jjohnwm said:
In this case, the "small cartridge crowd" is not only admitting that they can't shoot large stuff, but accusing everyone else of having the same difficulty.
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And "everyone else" can neither confirm or deny, since they've never actually and will not compare. "I don't think I do" is about as close as it gets, and it is best left that way since truth might not be so fun ;)

But they do seem to have some Camp Perry and Queens Medal candidates in their midst so there is that. Missed callings, alas.

dgradinaru said:
Back to the topic at hand. Even though today I'd lean 300 win, in 2019 I had a great season packing my 338 win mag Ruger m77 African. Shot just as well as any small bore I've owned. I recently bought 5 boxes of 230gr Norma Oryx on sale, just in case I come across another 338 that might speak to me. But for now my 8x68 shooting 224gr at 2840 fps and 200gr at 3050 fps is pretty much the same thing but with more class!
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Amazing hunting and photos. Wow. All of em, but that shot with the bear is awesome.
 
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