350 Legend
- Thread starter drakes only
- Start date
A bit of info in here. I’m in the exact same boat with my daughter. You’ll see in that thread a good fellow brought up some numbers. Last week I loaded my daughters .243 with the mildest load of H4895, there was a little drop in recoil vs factory, but not a lot, and noise was still quite similar.
Another that was mentioned was the 6.5 Grendel, looks to be a pretty good contender for a lower recoil cartridge. The 350 is still on my radar, I’d be curious to hear if anyone has first hand experience on recoil / noise vs the .243.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2407666-anybody-here-hunt-with-350-Legend
Another that was mentioned was the 6.5 Grendel, looks to be a pretty good contender for a lower recoil cartridge. The 350 is still on my radar, I’d be curious to hear if anyone has first hand experience on recoil / noise vs the .243.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2407666-anybody-here-hunt-with-350-Legend
Design
The cartridge was developed to deliver enough energy to achieve lethal terminal effects on large deer out to 200 yd (180 m). The recoil is light.
It's very similar to a 357 Maximum but with better bullets.
I've taken a few Deer out to 100 yds with the 357 Maxi and there is recoil. More than a ten to twelve year old girl might find comfortable.
If you're going to purchase a single shot rifle that is light, she will definitely know she's shooting something.
The other issue I would have with this round is availability of cartridges and suitable components.
You may be better off going to a 7.62x39 chambered in a Ruger, with a .308 bore diameter. Same effective range and recoil
The cartridge was developed to deliver enough energy to achieve lethal terminal effects on large deer out to 200 yd (180 m). The recoil is light.
It's very similar to a 357 Maximum but with better bullets.
I've taken a few Deer out to 100 yds with the 357 Maxi and there is recoil. More than a ten to twelve year old girl might find comfortable.
If you're going to purchase a single shot rifle that is light, she will definitely know she's shooting something.
The other issue I would have with this round is availability of cartridges and suitable components.
You may be better off going to a 7.62x39 chambered in a Ruger, with a .308 bore diameter. Same effective range and recoil
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I am in a dilemma about responding:
Part of me says, well done getting the relative out for a hunt!
Part of me wonders if more time on the range is needed to experience recoil and how to "hold on".
Part of me wonders how much physical effort is required for the hunt - stand or stalking.
Is the problem a lightweight rifle under recoil versus a heavier one.
Some stocks are less comfortable when fired. (I've shot a Garand in a plastic Ramline stock that felt more supple than good ole' USGI walnut.)
Another part of me asks, will the terminal ballistics be sufficient for an ethical one-shot kill.
I don't have all the answers.
Part of me says, well done getting the relative out for a hunt!
Part of me wonders if more time on the range is needed to experience recoil and how to "hold on".
Part of me wonders how much physical effort is required for the hunt - stand or stalking.
Is the problem a lightweight rifle under recoil versus a heavier one.
Some stocks are less comfortable when fired. (I've shot a Garand in a plastic Ramline stock that felt more supple than good ole' USGI walnut.)
Another part of me asks, will the terminal ballistics be sufficient for an ethical one-shot kill.
I don't have all the answers.
Noise level owon't be much different. 350 legend will have similar or higher recoil compared to 243.
Sometimes kids just aren't ready. Stick with a .22 and let them grow into a larger cartridge. Forcing them doesn't work.
Sometimes kids just aren't ready. Stick with a .22 and let them grow into a larger cartridge. Forcing them doesn't work.
The easiest way out of your dilemma is to take into account that the OP is dealing with a youngster.
The quickest way to turn off a young shooter is to force them to shoot firearms with more weight/recoil than they can comfortably handle at that stage of their lives.
You mention more range time. Great but more range time, practising hold techniques till the cows come home turns into pure misery for a young person that's recoil sensitive and they get turned off the experience very quickly, likely for life.
Whenever I come across a knuckledragger that brags and laughs over the results after giving a youngster or inexperienced shooter his single shot 12ga, loaded with a heavy 3in magnum load for their very first shot with a powerful firearm, I want to take that shotgun and wrap it around the solid bone that should hold a brain.
No, I'm not accusing you of that at all, from your reply, you've thought this through on a sensible level.
In my experience with young people, if they're not enjoying shooting a particular firearm at the range, they most certainly won't be happy hunting with it.
Any firearm that's capable of taking a Deer cleanly at 200 yds is going to produce enough energy that will transmit felt recoil to the shoulder of the shooter.
OP, good on you for trying to keep your daughter interested and unafraid of the firearm.
Most parents that teach their kids to shoot consider this but the one big mistake they repeat time and time again is to teach their kids to shoot on firearms that aren't designed for ''small people''
Felt recoil tolerance is something that can be ''taught to handle" but it never becomes pleasant and almost always develops a serious "flinch" issue for those who are sensitive and it can be extremely difficult to fix. Especially if the same beast that hurts them keeps being used.
Small people need a firearm that fits them well at their present stage of growth. This is one of the biggest felt recoil eliminators to start off with.
When a young person or any person new to shooting is given a firearm that fits properly, with proper drop at the comb and length of pull, felt recoil is minimized. Add a good recoil pad and it usually comes together.
Starting with a cartridge that generates enough power to do the job and with a lower noise level at a recoil level that isn't overwhelming isn't that difficult.
It becomes difficult when that cartridge is chambered in a very light, short barreled firearm.
Muzzle blast is every bit as disconcerting to a new shooter as recoil.
Sooo, I haven't answered all of your questions and maybe even thrown a bit more into your dilemma, but those fine little Howa 1500, short action rifles are reasonably priced, can be had with removable spacers for trigger pull and are well balanced for handling. They're chambered for several light recoiling cartridges that are capable of doing what you need and when the person starts to gain stature as well as confidence, the spacers can be add accordingly.
Felt recoil is subjective and depends A LOT on the rifle, the shooter, and the shooting position. Free recoil can be calculated, but often isn't much help.
Bearhunter has a good point about muzzle blast being a significant factor, not just recoil. Blast from a 35cal barrel will be significantly less than from a 243 (for example), all other things being equal, but I'd still try to keep the muzzle as far from the shooter's face as possible.
With a short LOP stock, how long of a barrel can your daughters handle?
ecadwallader
CGN Regular
I’m running a Ruger American ranch with a break in 350 for my kid. I would not buy the ranch again, as it had major feeding problems. I ended up having to install PTG bottom metal. The felt recoil to me is a bit more than 223, but far less than my 358.
I'm sure lots of guys will show up to argue but with a halfway decent bullet .223 is completely suitable for deer. If you don't have to work under the 6mm cutoff it's a good option.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
In my previous post weighing the options and the problems, I wondered about the size and physique of the young shooter. If the girls have experienced different firearms, you're further along the continuum than just intellectualizing it. I would suggest an SKS in 7.62x39 with an ergonomic stock, adjustable cheekrest and scope. The guns are cheap-ish, ammo supply means FMJ for practise and SP for hunting, and the terminal ballistics are equivalent to .30-30. You're off and away, and using a mil-surp rifle for peaceful purposes. Ticks every box.
With all the talk of soft recoil, if it is possible for a stand, I'd go so far as to make up a range card with hold overs and ethical shots. The Russian peasant gun has a slightly looping trajectory and giving points of aim might be hard when the target suddenly presents its.
What I did with my kids is I bought a Ruger 10-22 because it's compact which made it an ideal size for young shooters. I didn't like the fact that is was a semi auto so I would only put one cartridge in the magazine at a time. This way they wouldn't get trigger happy and randomly blast off 10 rounds. I taught them safe handling and taking their time when shooting. In this way they could develop some shooting skills without too much preaching on my part. Later they moved up to a 22 Mag, 22 hornet and a 223. This takes a bit of time but it ensures that as they grow - so does their experience with using firearms. Also, I would get them to use hearing protection because the sound of the muzzle blast can sometimes create a flinch. So those are the things that i've done when introducing the shooting experience to them.
If you're hunting from a blind or stand a chassis type rifle stock can help as it will adjust to her and fit well. It may add some weight which helps recoil but if hunting from a stand or blind a bipod could be used to support the rifle and keep her steady. If going for a lighter cartridge accuracy needs to be precise
That screams fast twist 223 to me. Ruger American compact is twisted 1:8. Let your kids run a couple hundred rounds through that over the summer and there won’t be anything that can escape them if they are even halfway moderate as an on-game shot.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
That kind of question can get you a smack in the nose in lots of places!
But you make a good point. My 14 year old daughter is 5'9". My buddy's 15 year old daughter is 5'3". Neither have done any amount of shooting before, but I know that the rifle that my daughter can handle will definitely look different than the rifle his can.
Honestly, as much as I hate the 243, it's a sensible place to start for hunting. Same with a 260, a Swede, even a Creed. But that being said, I'd like to get my daughter broke in shooting a centerfire a bit before having her sit a deer blind so, for me, that would mean a bolt action 223 or similar centerfire that fits and functions like any other "normal hunting rifle" but still has some recoil and some ability to reach out and hit a target. Breaking clay pigeons at 50 to 100 yards sounds perfect for a kid...visible, dynamic results that will keep them engaged. Then you can introduce activities like field positions and increased distances as their skills develop.
Once they are competent shooters with a 22 centerfire they will be ready to jump up to one of the 6mm, 6.5mm, or 7mm medium-length cartridges.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The gopher patch is an undeniably beneficial piece of real estate for training new shooters.
223 is a good choice if it's an option. Next step up is a 6 ARC, which would be more than adequate for deer out to 250-300y and a great little cartridge to learn long range with. I've always been a fan of the 6.5 grendel, just picked up a new barrel for the Renegade last week.
Looking back to when I was a kid it wasn't the recoil force that made me flinch it was the muzzle blast. My hearing pro didn't fit well over glasses, and we didn't have ear plugs. Doubling up hearing protection will go a long way to helping with recoil tolerance IMO.
Looking back to when I was a kid it wasn't the recoil force that made me flinch it was the muzzle blast. My hearing pro didn't fit well over glasses, and we didn't have ear plugs. Doubling up hearing protection will go a long way to helping with recoil tolerance IMO.
I'd definitely rather a 300 Blackout, 7.62x39, 6mm ARC than a 350 Legend but I am sure it works. The other 3 will have lower recoil...but as unholysavage points out, blast is something else. Notable difference betweenn 16" barrel and 20" or longer.
Still a light 350 Legend rifle can deliver 11 lbs of felt recoil with heaiver loads. My 6.5 Creedmoor kicks less.
The fast twist 223 has a lot of merit too though, not much is gonna walk off the right bullet.
Still a light 350 Legend rifle can deliver 11 lbs of felt recoil with heaiver loads. My 6.5 Creedmoor kicks less.
The fast twist 223 has a lot of merit too though, not much is gonna walk off the right bullet.
