350 magnum remington guidegun-or 450 marlin ?
- Thread starter ratherbefishin
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Spitzer said:
Nah, the only place the three of those rounds are popular is on the internet with guys that know
35 cal's have never been that popular... they're big ugly, and not as flashy as a they're parent cartridges. But they kill better
The 358 was introduced the same year as the 243(the first commercial variants of the 308 win case), and the 243 became a staple, and the 358 was backbenched for years until only recently. The 35 rem really has been the only rifle cal that has stood the test of time. For some reason, 35 cal's dont sell.
Winchester tried to redo it, and offered the 356, but it failed miserably also...
Cal's like the 358 win, 35 Whelen and the 350 rem mag can thank the Internet for their marginal and increasing popularity.
They kill like the dickens, and shoot relitively flat for an above 30 cal.
Perfect IMHO, I've had a thing for 35's since well before I owned one.
I hunted for a 358 for a long time, and than one day, I found both a 358 in a model 99, and a 356 win in a model 94 at the same gunshow.
I chose the 356...
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I've read a few pretty fancy accounts of this phenominon in North America; lets call it the curse of the .35 calibre. Name one that has been a hit success? Sorry. Nada.
I think it has a lot to do with hunters and shooting enthusiasts forming a love affair with balistic charts and tables. Probably started with guys like Jack O'Connor getting all jazzed about how fast and flat the .270 could carry. If you look at the charts closely you'll see the .35 family doesn't shoot as fast, has more drop at X distance and looses energy quicker than the faster 30s and other big sellers. Duh its a bigger heavier bullet
The .338 mag came around what, in the 60's?? and that seemed to be where guys went if they wanted to shoot 200 gr plus bullets. The .35s have all been cancelled at one time. There seems to be a renewed interest somewhat alright. Internet? Maybe. Or maybe some guys just know that the numbers don't kill the bullets do. The 35s kill well beyond what the numbers say they should IMHO>....
I think it has a lot to do with hunters and shooting enthusiasts forming a love affair with balistic charts and tables. Probably started with guys like Jack O'Connor getting all jazzed about how fast and flat the .270 could carry. If you look at the charts closely you'll see the .35 family doesn't shoot as fast, has more drop at X distance and looses energy quicker than the faster 30s and other big sellers. Duh its a bigger heavier bullet
The .338 mag came around what, in the 60's?? and that seemed to be where guys went if they wanted to shoot 200 gr plus bullets. The .35s have all been cancelled at one time. There seems to be a renewed interest somewhat alright. Internet? Maybe. Or maybe some guys just know that the numbers don't kill the bullets do. The 35s kill well beyond what the numbers say they should IMHO>....
I'll have my Ruger 77 out to the range tomorrow, I'm looking forward to trying it out w/ Remington 200 grain factory loads. Then, I'll have some brass with which to try loading some 225 grain Nosler Ballistic tips I just bought. I figured I would use these as a development bullet, for later switching to 225 grain Nosler Partitions. Should be fun!
Jeff/1911.
Jeff/1911.
Why is it not more popular? Two words: Holland and Holland (actually, that's only one word, twice ). Specifically the .375 - has pretty much all the benefits of the 350 and 450 put together. Plus, it's readily available
). Specifically the .375 - has pretty much all the benefits of the 350 and 450 put together. Plus, it's readily availableprosper said:Why is it not more popular? Two words: Holland and Holland (actually, that's only one word, twice
last I checked the .375H&H wasn't available in a lever gun, doesn;t throw lead over 300grs well, and is .053" smaller
in close nothing beats a .458 lever gun. for more practical all-around hunting I would take the H&H over the .350
Jeff/1911 said:I'll have my Ruger 77 out to the range tomorrow, I'm looking forward to trying it out w/ Remington 200 grain factory loads. Then, I'll have some brass with which to try loading some 225 grain Nosler Ballistic tips I just bought. I figured I would use these as a development bullet, for later switching to 225 grain Nosler Partitions. Should be fun!
Jeff/1911.
Those 225 NP's should be deadly.... but you should give the 225 TSX's a try also... they are sinister!
I've yet to see any other bullet/cartridge combo provide such wound channels... simply incredible!
280_ACKLEY
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todbartell said:in all 'practical' hunting scenarios, where does a 375 offer something a 350 cant?
Feed reliability, proven performance, availability, trajectory, about a thousand ft-lbs - so greater penetration & more damage, and a bigger hole.
If we're strictly speaking in guide gun terms, then there is not much practical difference. Otherwise, it's comparing apples to much bigger apples
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todbartell said:in all 'practical' hunting scenarios, where does a 375 offer something a 350 cant?
Perhaps this comparison has merit if you compare a .358 Norma to a .375 H&H, but a fat little .350 Remington against a .375???? How much powder capacity does the .350 have left when you load 275 gr bullets in that short neck?
The only argument I have in favour of the .375 vs the .358 Norma is that the .375 is legal for dangerous game in Africa, were as the .358 Norma is not. Frontal area of the .375 is less than 5% larger than that of the .358, and the sectional density of the 275 gr .358 matches the sectional density of the .375 300gr, at a comparable velocity. The .375 however walks away from the .358 when you start to look at 350 and 380 gr bullets, but these are not commonly loaded yet.
Im thinking more along the lines of hunting anything in Canada, at normal hunting ranges (300 yards and in).
I think a guy would be hard pressed to find actual on-game gains over a 250 gr. @ 2500 fps (compared to a 375 H&H 270 @ 2700).
Dead is dead.
350 RM rifles are lighter, handier, less recoil and less powder burnt. Plenty of bullets available if you handload, but if you dont, well...
I think a guy would be hard pressed to find actual on-game gains over a 250 gr. @ 2500 fps (compared to a 375 H&H 270 @ 2700).
Dead is dead.
350 RM rifles are lighter, handier, less recoil and less powder burnt. Plenty of bullets available if you handload, but if you dont, well...
oh yeah, I remember you
30-06, then the 280, then the 270, then the 25-06...
soon we'll be at the 17 Hummer
Im just sayin, for medium bore thumpers, the 350 Rem Mag doesnt lose much ground the the 375 H&H, unless you're going after huge african animals, and *need* a 300 grain bullet.
30-06, then the 280, then the 270, then the 25-06...
soon we'll be at the 17 Hummer
Im just sayin, for medium bore thumpers, the 350 Rem Mag doesnt lose much ground the the 375 H&H, unless you're going after huge african animals, and *need* a 300 grain bullet.
- Location
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Tod –
I concede, a big advantage the .350 Magnum has is a magical velocity, which in a pinch, will stretch range out to 300 yards - but doesn't blow up bullets at 30 yards. Ballistically the twin of the .35 Whelen, the .350 Mag has the advantage of a short action, and therefore the possibility of an overall shorter handier rifle, such as the old Remington 600/660 series. The disadvantage of a short neck is no disadvantage at all, provided bullets in the 225 - 250 gr range are chosen. I just happen to like heavy for caliber bullets, but as you said - dead is dead!
There are other cartridges, which share this short length, medium, bore, moderate velocity formula - but many are wildcats. I thought the .375-284 was a good idea, and would be ballistically similar to what has become the .375 Styer. Loaded with a .358" bullet, it would become yet another .350 Magnum/.35 Whelen twin, and with a .366" bullet would become a 9.3X62 short action twin. Anyone of these cartridges in a Savage 99 would make a very capable big game rifle for rough country.
I concede, a big advantage the .350 Magnum has is a magical velocity, which in a pinch, will stretch range out to 300 yards - but doesn't blow up bullets at 30 yards. Ballistically the twin of the .35 Whelen, the .350 Mag has the advantage of a short action, and therefore the possibility of an overall shorter handier rifle, such as the old Remington 600/660 series. The disadvantage of a short neck is no disadvantage at all, provided bullets in the 225 - 250 gr range are chosen. I just happen to like heavy for caliber bullets, but as you said - dead is dead!
There are other cartridges, which share this short length, medium, bore, moderate velocity formula - but many are wildcats. I thought the .375-284 was a good idea, and would be ballistically similar to what has become the .375 Styer. Loaded with a .358" bullet, it would become yet another .350 Magnum/.35 Whelen twin, and with a .366" bullet would become a 9.3X62 short action twin. Anyone of these cartridges in a Savage 99 would make a very capable big game rifle for rough country.
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