45-70 vs. 375H&H for up close

Something about a 525gr - 550gr WLNGC hard cast bullet @ 1600fps that just makes me feel that I have the tool to stop anything charging me in North America.

But don't listen to my opinions what do the real hunting guides use I don't mean the guys that do it now and then or for a few years I mean guys that spend their lives guiding in the remote areas heres a link to "Ed Steveson Last of the Sourbough's" http://www.z-hat.com/Stevenson.htm lets see what he uses and why...
 
I'ts been awhile since I read that article about Ed Stevenson...

It seems these days he uses the .375 Scovill, .411 Hawk, 45/70 and .450 Alaskan.

Phil Shoemaker (also an Alaskan outfitter) seems to favour the .458WM, .416 Rigby and carried the .375 Ruger last year,IIRC.

My buddy and his friend (both northern BC guides for quite a few years) carry a .300 RUM and 30-06 respectively

I think we'd find more grizzly guides carrying Magnum bolt actions in .338WM, .375H&H, .416 and .458WM than the 45/70's.

But all of them will stop a bear if you use the right bullet and shoot it in the right place.;)
 
When you really think about it debating between the 45-70 and the upper end .375 is kinda like arguing about what will kill a coyote quicker 243 or 30-06 both will do the job, all depends on the nut holding the trigger and his ability to hit point of aim. Load a 300 hard cast in the .45 colt. shoot it in a light recoiling 5lb.Winchester trapper at 1700 fps it will straight line penatrate over 36" in any critter, and you can kill anything in North America......... And I hunt coyote with my .458WM.
 
But all of them will stop a bear if you use the right bullet and shoot it in the right place
Click to expand...

Maybe why I am interested in the 416 Ruger my thinking is always evolving a 400gr bullet @ 2300fps - 2400fps maybe perfect for my wants.

Until then my 45-70 is my heavy bush gun...
 
Up close I like the .450 Marlin 1895M with iron sights using Hornady 325gr FTX Leverolution ammunition 4+1 quick rounds makes it a bear bashing, light weight masterpiece. And it fits my saddle or backpack beautifully. Might even take it on a buffalo hunt if things come together.:dancingbanana:
 
A fellow member on "levergunlovers" site did extesive testing between two of his rifles a 375 and 450(marlin). He loaded up various bullets from both calibers to determine which would be more effective on his upcoming water buffalo hunt (1800lbs). Interesting data. Both work well but in the end he went with a 450 Marlin with 420gr Crater bullet @ 1750fps. THe flat nose not only pentirates in a straight line but the meplat (flat nose of the bullet) opened up a 2in wound channel, not just .45 hole all the way threw.

Either one works. Bullet testing and actual experence would be benifical to this thread.
 
]
bunny said:
When you really think about it debating between the 45-70 and the upper end .375 is kinda like arguing about what will kill a coyote quicker 243 or 30-06 both will do the job, all depends on the nut holding the trigger and his ability to hit point of aim.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's mostly an academic discussion. Neither one is going to bounce off a bears skull, spine or shoulder...

Load a 300 hard cast in the .45 colt. shoot it in a light recoiling 5lb.Winchester trapper at 1700 fps it will straight line penatrate over 36" in any critter, and you can kill anything in North America.........
Click to expand...

I'll have to try that out some day.;)
 
My 45 Colt carry loads are 280gr - 345gr WFNGC's and my 454 Casull loads are 355gr - 405gr WLNGC's because they outperform any other handgun bullet on the market for wound cavity and penetration.

Another reason why I believe in heavy wide meplat bullets in my 45-70.
 
Gatehouse said:
I'ts been awhile since I read that article about Ed Stevenson...

It seems these days he uses the .375 Scovill, .411 Hawk, 45/70 and .450 Alaskan.

Phil Shoemaker (also an Alaskan outfitter) seems to favour the .458WM, .416 Rigby and carried the .375 Ruger last year,IIRC.

My buddy and his friend (both northern BC guides for quite a few years) carry a .300 RUM and 30-06 respectively

I think we'd find more grizzly guides carrying Magnum bolt actions in .338WM, .375H&H, .416 and .458WM than the 45/70's.

But all of them will stop a bear if you use the right bullet and shoot it in the right place.;)
Click to expand...


IMHO, the grizzly guides carrying bolt guns are not reloading and therefore I understand very well why the .45-70 is not attractive to them.

I strongly believe that the Garrett cartridges have more than enough oomph to stop whatever walks Northern America..... and more.

BTW, Vince Lupo did set a world record with Marlin 1895 using Garrett ammo on African Big Six.

BB
 
I wonder how many elefants, cape buffalos, lions, tiger, and other horrible man eating beasts have been taken with a single shot from a 303 british being aimed by a cool headed farmer colonist type who knows how to put the bullet exactly where he wants.
 
Boom-Boom said:
IMHO, the grizzly guides carrying bolt guns are not reloading and therefore I understand very well why the .45-70 is not attractive to them.

I strongly believe that the Garrett cartridges have more than enough oomph to stop whatever walks Northern America..... and more.

BTW, Vince Lupo did set a world record with Marlin 1895 using Garrett ammo on African Big Six.

BB
Click to expand...

I am sure that a properly loaded 45/70 isn't going ot bounce off anything- it has enough power for anything in NA.;)

What world record?
 
bunny said:
I wonder how many elefants, cape buffalos, lions, tiger, and other horrible man eating beasts have been taken with a single shot from a 303 british being aimed by a cool headed farmer colonist type who knows how to put the bullet exactly where he wants.
Click to expand...

There is an old saying about the 303 Britiah it goes something like this...

More animals have been shot with the 303 British than any other catridge and more animals have been wounded with the 303 British than any other cartridge.

Not my first choice but I do own one... :)
 
More animals have been shot with the .375 Ruger than any other catridge and more animals have been wounded with the .375 Ruger than any other cartridge.:evil:


Fixed it for you.
 
Ive seen pics of elephants and africa's biggest game taken with a marlin 45/70. they used Garret ammo loads though.
 
As much as I love the 303 and such, I wasn't asking about "hunting". I was asking with regards to guiding. I don't think I would use my 303 as a bear rifle.
 
WHAT????...no short super ultra mangleums?...how can you kill a bear with a cartridge that's nearly 100 years old?...the gun rags say it can't be done...gotta have a RUM or a Lapua or some other new case...:D

reb said:
Hunting on the Alaskan Peninsula for Brown Bear last spring 95% of the guides carried 375 H+H,One 458 win.mag.Out of 8 hunters 6 had 375H+H.
That has to say something for this fine old cartrigde.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom