.45 vs 9mm - The debate is over, say the Experts

Bigfoot 870 said:
OK, so you don't believe the .40S&W is as good as another cartridge, fine. You like the 9mm, fine. No one is trying to force their opinion on you. Like I said, I respect the choice of any LEO, as it's their azz on the line.

None of your argument applies to my original comment, but you tagged it, then made your comments. That didn't make a whole lot of sense in the first place, so it appeared as trolling. You have stated that you are better educated, on an issue, than other CGNers. Well, you are only guessing at that, because you have no idea of their experience, regardless of what the internet says.



I know someone whom plans to deer hunt with his .45 ACP rifle, this fall. It will be interesting to see what this bullet will do to a whitetail, out to 50 yards.

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-ACP-185-gr-Critical-Defense/
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I do not dislike the 40 or any other cartridge, hell for most a 380 will be a better round then the 45 due to its shootability. The OP's article did show most feel the 9 is a better for a number of reasons that I agree with. I agree that any larger round with a "trained" shooter has the potential to be more effective but the deciding factor is being trained. If an untrained shooter picked up a 9, 40 and then a 45 they would undoubtably be more affective with the 9. So in the grand skeam of things the the 9 is a better round. Even a highly trained shooter could put more 9's on someone over the other two. Check out any rapid shooting video and observe what the dominate Caliber is.
 
I would strongly encourage all of you, to start doing your own tests instead of blindly following the "internet truths". We think of these experts as some source of objective opinion for the average Joe. Maybe they are, but your own discoveries are so much more fun! Well, bunch of us, working together were questionning the merits of sticking with .40...so, after running our own, maybe not super scientific, but still fair test..we were able to find the answers that we were looking for. Now we don't ask that question anymore. Give it a try.
 
Objectively, in Canada, the 9mm vs .40 vs .45 debate is moot anyways except for LE procurement.
In any kind of Canadian life and death scenario, most of us would have our trusty 12 ga which should trump any pistol round at 10 yds! Racking a shotgun alone should stop most two legged threats instantly!
Any firearm would beat bare fists anyday.
 
Nestor said:
I would strongly encourage all of you, to start doing your own tests instead of blindly following the "internet truths". We think of these experts as some source of objective opinion for the average Joe. Maybe they are, but your own discoveries are so much more fun! Well, bunch of us, working together were questionning the merits of sticking with .40...so, after running our own, maybe not super scientific, but still fair test..we were able to find the answers that we were looking for. Now we don't ask that question anymore. Give it a try.
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What?! Everything on the interenet isn't true? Say it isn't so.
 
madcow said:
What?! Everything on the interenet isn't true? Say it isn't so.
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I can't comment on "everything" :)
I'm simply referring to this topic of discussion, partially thanks to my own findings.
People tend to involve their own ego and defending their own choices...sometimes against the basic rules of logic.
That's it. Plus learning stuff first hand is so much fun!
I guess you can make an analogy to many, other things out there too.
 
Well boys, I don't recall rendering a decision on this topic, so the original poster is admonished not to put words into my mouth!

There are too many variables in cartridge effectiveness to really make a meaningful decision between the two. For a statistically valid winner the difference between the two calibres has to be greater than 3%. All the honest tests I've seen put the 9 and 45 neck and neck. I shoot the 45 because it's lower velocities are conducive to better accuracy with cast lead. That - and the fact that God Himself probably shoots the 45 as He plinks with St. Cooper and St. Browning.

If some idiot wants to think his 9 is better than my 45 I suppose there is no harm in it.
 
r34skyline said:
Simple, the 9 is easier to shoot better. If you can shoot a 45 fast and accurate then you can shoot a 9 faster and just as accurate if not more.
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I'm not so sure that's the case, and it has to do with the false premise that the 45 is some sort of hard hitter.

Truth be told, the 45 is so big and slow that it's actually easier to shoot than something that's snappy, or actually a hard round like a 10mm or 44 Magnum.

The 45 is actually easier to shoot than a 9mm, because it's such a slow push.
 
Petamocto said:
I'm not so sure that's the case, and it has to do with the false premise that the 45 is some sort of hard hitter.

Truth be told, the 45 is so big and slow that it's actually easier to shoot than something that's snappy, or actually a hard round like a 10mm or 44 Magnum.

The 45 is actually easier to shoot than a 9mm, because it's such a slow push.
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In guns of equal weight and equal recoil system, 45 hits harder, Shoot a USP45 and a USP9 side by side, or a 45 Glock and a 9mm glock, or a M&P45 and a M&P9. The 45 always recoils harder.
 
Petamocto said:
I'm not so sure that's the case, and it has to do with the false premise that the 45 is some sort of hard hitter.

Truth be told, the 45 is so big and slow that it's actually easier to shoot than something that's snappy, or actually a hard round like a 10mm or 44 Magnum.

The 45 is actually easier to shoot than a 9mm, because it's such a slow push.
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What you're referring to is called the recoil impulse. And yes the 45 produces more of a push but the energy involved is greater which means more recoil and slower follow up shots as well as less control.

TW25B
 
I shoot more .45acp and 10mm than anything else. Do you know why? Because I feel like it. Is my SHTFantasy gun a G17? Sure. And I have HST for it on the zillion-to-one chance I ever need it.

9mm is a proven cartridge that seems to equal everything else when tested by organizations that can blow a million dollars on deciding, and 99.99% of people will shoot it faster and more accurately than the other popular service calibres, plus it's cheaper, so if you need to shoot a lot, and you think you might be shooting for keeps, and you don't think you're facing intermediate barriers, 9mm makes a ton of sense. That debate was over years ago and it's honestly surprising to me when I see it come up.



But how many of us are shooting for keeps with our privately owned handguns? Not many - and for those of us who carry privately owned handguns when outside of Canada, how many people are we actually shooting? I'm hazarding a guess that something very close to 100% of us are shooting something in the general range of, say, zero people with our privately owned guns. So most people here are doing this because they like it.



If you're shooting for fun, you should shoot in a manner you enjoy, with equipment you like. Who cares what it is, or why you like it?
 
I own 9mm (2), 38spl(2), 40 S&W(1) and 45ACP(1) handguns. Based on my observation with my guns. The 9mm is the most accurate and easiest to shoot consistently well, the 45ACP has significantly more recoil but I find it only makes a small amount of difference to shootability and it is a very close second to the 9mm. My two favourite guns are a Pardini in 9mm and my 1911 in 45ACP. I find the 40 S & W to be quite a bit more difficult to shoot well. I have to concentrate more on recoil management and trigger control. The recoil is both heavier and sharper than the 9mm. In terms of effectiveness I believe all three are more than adequate with the right type of bullet. Of the three I would go with the 9mm in a light plastic body gun, if you have a heavier steel frame gun I would probably go with the 45ACP. Personally I would not choose the 40. I just think it is harder to shoot well. A good challenge at the range but for personal defence being harder to shoot is definitely a negative.

Continue the flame.
 
I do think the 9mm is good enough for self defence and perfect for target shooting given the low cost and high availability of free brass. If I could choose only one then I would choose the 9mm.
That said, if i was legally allowed to carry, I would choose the 45 acp. I like it a lot and it would make me feel better.
Given the high number of inumerable variables in self defence senarios, i'm not certain one could actually determine if one caliber is better than another.
In most cases, what one can afford and what one feels good about is what's best for them.
 
As someone mentioned, other factors such as the shooter, trigger pull, sights, etc than the caliber. So if you shoot both calibers with similar results, then what are the advantages for either?

Advantage of 9mm - Cost and Capacity (std mags 17 to 20)
Advantage of 45acp - Bigger holes

IMO, I'd take the gun that could hold more bullets. That's the main factor on why ppl prefer 9mm, more follow up shots if you miss whether it's in competition or self-defense/fire fight. Article is from the US, so capacity is a big factor when debating these calibers.

But we are in Canada, so the capacity factor is thrown out of this argument. So if cost isn't an issue, I'd take a 45.
 
Sqr said:
If you did some searching you would have educated yourself on the true reason for the 40. It was another failed attempt at finding a caliber to replace both the 9 and 45. Proper traing with the standard of the time would have led to a better outcome, however it was easier to blame the weapon caliber.

There are zero hand gun Calibers out there that will end a confrontation quickly, unless a brain or spinal shot hits home. IMHO the 9 is the superior cartridge due to its multiple shot controllability for both an inexperienced and professional operator. The 45 is another fine round that requires some work to double tap. The 40, well is a wannabe caliber that can be a handful for any shooter.
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You're off a little. The 40 short and weak was what came after the FBI adopted the 10mm auto as their service pistol cartridge and the weak wristed whiners couldn't shoot it comfortably. The 10mm was then downloaded a couple times until they realized that at the velocities they were loading it to they could get the same performance from a shorter cartridge that could be shot from a small frame pistol like the Glock 17 and the 40 S&W was born.

Personally I have owned numerous 9mm and 45 auto pistols. If we look at it practically as a Canadian they are all useless, although some are much more exciting to shoot than others. I like my 9mm for cheap low recoil fun that gives more snap than a 22LR but doesn't break the bank if you want to dump a few hundred rounds in an afternoon. I like my 45ACP for similar cost shooting to the 9mm (I'm a handloader) with a little more boom but a smoother recoil than the 9mm.
If we look at it like an American or a law enforcement professional then the debate means a little more. Personally I don't give a rats ass which one looks better on paper or has more energy, I don't want to get shot by any of them and after watching some youtube vids of 9mm going through 2x4's and 3/4 inch plywood at 400+ yards from a carbine I think it's going to penetrate skin, cotton shirts and a jacket at any practical range a pistol would be used at.
I like the 9mm and the 45, each have their good and bad points depending what you're doing that day.

Enjoy shooting what you own and try every pistol and caliber you get a chance to is all that matters.
 
"In fact one officer told me they had yet to have a bad guy survive who they had shot with the Ranger 127 gr +P+."

Ahhhhhhh........yeah right..........B.S.

That statement destroys any credibility this pseudo article might have had.

The more I read by Larry Vickers the less I believe ANYTHING he writes or has to say.

John
 
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