450 marlin vs 444 marlin vs 45-70

[anglia2]

If you want something more than the 30-30 in your lever gun and the 444 and 45-70 seem like too much of a good thing here's your answer...

How come I haven't seen that one ? I thought we were friends ...... and now this !

 

[74monster]

I had a 444 but unless you get a fast twist one, you are limited to the bullets you can use. Microgroove barrels don't like cast bullets generally. The one I had had a 1:38" twist, so 265gr bullets were about its limit. Hornady is not making the 265gr .429" bullet anymore, so I sold it. If you do get a .444, make sure it has a 1:20" twist and ballard rifling.
The 45/70 was the easiest of the three to load for. (getting components) and achieving consistently good accuracy.
I owned a 450 marlin for 1 year, and found it too expensive to shoot. (getting brass was hard, and factory ammo was expensive .......................if you can find it) I ended up sticking with the 45/70 so I could use the big-ol' cast bullets.

I'm shooting the BTB 355gr sized to .432 in my micro grooved 444 over 44gr of reloader 7 . works awesome, good accuracy, kicks like a mule and put a 2 inch hole through a deers neck with no bloodshot meat

 

[Brutus]

I was under the impression that the silenced .458 used by the military was an basic unaltered M-70 .458 with a can on it, but I would have to dive into the books to confirm that.

With respect to the microgroove .45/70, in those days I was using plain base bullets backed with 3031, so I have no doubt that accuracy would be improved and fouling would be lessened with gas checked bullets.

COTW mentions this one in thier chapter of military rifle cartridges.

It actually was 458x1.33inch or thereabouts IIRC. Used a 500 gr FMJ apparently.

Did not endear itself to snipers. Too heavy according to field reports. I think I vaguely remember Wilson Arms(?) A Georgia based dealer in Class III firearms in the late 1970s. Saying that they tried out a suppressed 458x2inch(?) rifle and the suppression factor was outlandishly successful. No other details. Thier own words.

 

[Boomer]

COTW mentions this one in thier chapter of military rifle cartridges.

It actually was 458x1.33inch or thereabouts IIRC. Used a 500 gr FMJ apparently.

Did not endear itself to snipers. Too heavy according to field reports. I think I vaguely remember Wilson Arms(?) A Georgia based dealer in Class III firearms in the late 1970s. Saying that they tried out a suppressed 458x2inch(?) rifle and the suppression factor was outlandishly successful. No other details. Thier own words.

In the book "The complete Book of US Sniping" author Peter R. Senich, mentions a .458 magum, but does not mention the specific cartridge leaving the reader to assume its the .458 Winchester. The supporting photo though shows a M-70 rifle with a full length can which begins at the bell of what appears to be a 3-9X Realist scope, and what appears to be approximately an 18" barrel (based on the length of the action). The butt appears to be fitted with an M-14 butt plate, which makes a full power .458 Winchester cartridge unlikely, besides the point was quiet, so you would expect subsonic loads. The text is as follows . . .

"In February 1971 Franklin Owens of the USALWL accompanied five .458 magnum silent sniper rifle systems to the Twenty-third Infantry Division (Americal) Sniper School in Vietnam for evaluation purposes. The systems were tested by sniper school cadre and division snipers during March, April, and May on the sniper range near Chu Lai. Two rifles were sent to the field with snipers who volunteered to evaluate them during missions under combat conditions.

The result of thorough test and evaluation indicated that the XM-21 was far superior to the .458 magnum silent sniper system in all respects except noise suppression, and as a result were deemed unsuitable for further field use."

 

[brybenn]

I've heard from a good friend that it was a 458 wm used with 600 gr subsonic round under 1000 fps. He has replicated the round with cast bullets and the accuracy is very nice. I'm not sure who made the 600 gr jacketed bullet or what it's profile was like.
The 458 whisper is a shorter version of what was used in veitnam

 

[Boomer]

I've heard from a good friend that it was a 458 wm used with 600 gr subsonic round under 1000 fps. He has replicated the round with cast bullets and the accuracy is very nice. I'm not sure who made the 600 gr jacketed bullet or what it's profile was like.
The 458 whisper is a shorter version of what was used in veitnam

Pounder had some .458/600s perhaps from Marstar or Milarm, don't recall which, and IIRC, they were sold under the Game Ranger brand name. I might have one laying around somewhere, but it seems to me that they were a FMJ, or if not a FMJ they had such a heavy jacket that expansion was unlikely at .458 Winchester velocities, never mind at transonic or subsonic velocities.