50 Bw mags things are getting stupid

[Pocisk]

then why has a LARGE shipment of Beowulf mags been stopped from coming in the country as per one of this sites vendors posts in this thread?

You'll really have to direct that question at the people that stopped the shipment.

If a 5.56 mag has the 5.56 scraped off and has 50 Beo stamped in it's place, and is capable of holding 5 50 Beo's but many more 5.56 cartridges, then one has a pretty good argument that the mag was not originally designed or manufactured for 50 Beo and is a prohibited device. I don't think anyone is disputing that. But it doesn't follow from that, that ALL 50 Beo mags are originally designed or manufactured for 5.56. And it certainly doesn't follow from that that ALL mags need to be submitted to the RCMP for approval.

 

[capp325]

Many manufacturers produce mags that do not have a good reliability track reccord, why would/should C-Products .50beo mags w/ anti-tilt followers be any different?

One thing that makes C-Products mags (at least the ones I've seen posted on this site) different is that they have followers with grind marks in the area where the caliber stamp is normally found. You don't need to be a forensic expert to figure out what that means. That alone possibly means that the caliber identity was not chosen at the factory, as you say. And when I say "probably" I mean that no one really know the answer and the first person to find out will be the first guy charged with possession of a prohibited device.

 

[Brian46]

You'll really have to direct that question at the people that stopped the shipment.

If a 5.56 mag has the 5.56 scraped off and has 50 Beo stamped in it's place, and is capable of holding 5 50 Beo's but many more 5.56 cartridges, then one has a pretty good argument that the mag was not originally designed or manufactured for 50 Beo and is a prohibited device. I don't think anyone is disputing that. But it doesn't follow from that, that ALL 50 Beo mags are originally designed or manufactured for 5.56. And it certainly doesn't follow from that that ALL mags need to be submitted to the RCMP for approval.

Unfortunately the RCMP-SFSS disagrees with your assertions and they are the ones an officer in the field will rely on for technical advice when dealing with us gun owners.

Being the dealer with Alexander Arms, we were originally going to manufacturer the polymer version of the .50 Beowulf mags in Korea completely with a new mold 2 years ago. We have one currently sitting with RCMP for inspection, however, numerous email with RCMP did mentioned that they will not likely going to approve any .50 Beowulf magazine.

Here is a portion of the communication I have with RCMP

"Across the spectrum of numerous inspections, RCMP-SFSS has not seen a single 50 Beowulf magazine or a single 458 Socom Calibre magazine for the AR-15 platform that is not prohibited. This is because the magazine designs we have seen have been adapted from the AR-15/M16 5.56 x 45 mm design to accommodate the 458 Socom & 50 Beowulf calibre cartridge but have never lost the 5.56 mm design features.

I am not here to argue, I am here to tell people what SFSS told me.

It really doesn't make any sense to me either, but a lot of stuffs in life doesn't make any sense as well.

 

[capp325]

This is confusing as hell for me.

I agree with what CTCS is saying, it is legal until we have written from CFC about the .50 Beo Mag.

My opinion on this is that it is legal to sell now, but if you ask for approval from CFC, you won't get one.

Regardless, I am not taking the chance on this with my company.

Unfortunately, that's not how the law operates. There are certain criteria that make a magazine legal or illegal. A CFC opinion is not the law. It's just an opinion on how the law is to be interpreted. Just because CFC has not provided an opinion on the legality of a particular device does not mean that the device is legal "for the time being". Anyone who wades into the grey area, be in it consumer or vendor, is taking a risk.

 

[whiteoutjeeper]

then why has a LARGE shipment of Beowulf mags been stopped from coming in the country as per one of this sites vendors posts in this thread?

Because someone decided that they knew the law better than the RCMP and tried to get them to approve a magazine, which they won't do. Inadvertantly, another Canadian vendor has caused a ridiculous amount of trouble and grief for gun owners.

The mags are still available BTW.

 

[Brian46]

Because someone decided that they knew the law better than the RCMP and tried to get them to approve a magazine, which they won't do. Inadvertantly, another Canadian vendor has caused a ridiculous amount of trouble and grief for gun owners.

sounds more like an entity bigger than a vendor tried to bring them in for all the Canadian Vendors

We have a large order of 50 BW mags in place with A large Canadian distributor with a. I just contacted them and they advised there are legal concerns preventing them from bringing them into Canada at present. The legality of the mags, where and who makes them and if they have been converted from another caliber are under review by the Canadian government. At present we are not selling them(don't have any anyway) and until the distributor is assured these are legal (in what ever form they arrive) we won't try to bring them in. I think everyone needs to sit back and take a deep breath. Thanks BBB for bringing up this concern and certainly don't think your motive was to attack another dealer but to try to get to the bottom of what's going on with these mags...time will tell. Phil.

The mags are still available BTW.

which mags and where? I am looking for AA ones as the anti tilt 223 follower on the C products mags makes them unreliable when feeding the 50 Beowulf rounds.

 

[TinkerBell]

the end all be all of the cproducts magazine is the half circle cut out in the front of the mag was done BEFORE the magazine was folded and welded.... this is evident when you look at the actual magazine.... THEREFORE they where built as a .50BW magazine from the get go.... no if's and's or butt's.....

end of story.....

 

[Familygunnutz]

D

the end all be all of the cproducts magazine is the half circle cut out in the front of the mag was done BEFORE the magazine was folded and welded.... this is evident when you look at the actual magazine.... THEREFORE they where built as a .50BW magazine from the get go.... no if's and's or butt's.....

end of story.....

Interesting observation...

 

[Mark-II]

Other than the apparent use of non-50-optimal .223-loving followers.

 

[ctcs]

This whole mag issue is about as stupid as the US ATF arm brace issue.

 

[TinkerBell]

Other than the apparent use of non-50-optimal .223-loving followers.

but the use of .223 followers in .50 magazines is not uncommon.... nor does it really matter because it is just a part, same as the floorplate and the spring, and I don't see anyone complain that the floorplate and spring are .223 parts.

the shell of the magazine, the actual device that holds the cartridges is a purpose built .50bw item. the half cut in the front does nothing for .223 and in fact it may cause nose diving in some rifle from what I have seen.

 

[capp325]

the shell of the magazine, the actual device that holds the cartridges is a purpose built .50bw item.

Where did you get the idea that the shell is the only thing that matters for the purposes of determining whether a mag is purpose-built for .50 bw? A mag is not a firearm (where the frame/receiver is consider the firearm). I am not aware of any law that equates the magazine with the magazine body.

 

[tiriaq]

There is a case law precedent. Chap in BC went to jail for importing stripped magazine casings that were from 30rd 5.56 magazines.

 

[ctcs]

R v Cancade 2008 and 2011

http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/...ia/2008/11/14/r-v-cancade-2008-bcpc-336.shtml

http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/...al/2011/03/09/r-v-cancade-2011-bcca-105.shtml

Both cases reference R v Hasselwander - http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1007/index.do where most of the legal justices define the precedent for words like "capable" and "variant" and "ease of alteration".

 

[capp325]

There is a case law precedent. Chap in BC went to jail for importing stripped magazine casings that were from 30rd 5.56 magazines.

You are referring to the R. v. Cancade case. Cancade was convicted because the judge thought that magazine casings satisfied the definition of "containers capable of feeding more than 5 rounds into the receiver". I'm not sure you can necessarily rely on that case for the proposition that a .50 Cal stamped casing with a 5.56 follower is a .50 Cal magazine.

 

[adriel]

the end all be all of the cproducts magazine is the half circle cut out in the front of the mag was done BEFORE the magazine was folded and welded.... this is evident when you look at the actual magazine.... THEREFORE they where built as a .50BW magazine from the get go.... no if's and's or butt's.....

end of story.....

I agree with TinkerBell, the mag body itself is cutout for a 50 beo and the factory finish is on top so it's clear that these aren't just crimped 20 rounders. Maybe CPD is nervous about getting sued by AA for making 50 Beowulf accessories?

I found this image showing CPD's 20 round mag. Note the square feed nose area instead of the semi-circle cutout.

 

[mg4201]

I will be screwing off my comp and throwing it in the garbage this morning. If you feel this strongly about it phone the maker all it sounds like to me is someone doesn't like there being a new business but hey maybe your right that would mean any after market would not be legit thanks.

You already paid for that comp. Throwing it in the garbage proves nothing and only hurts you.

 

[Brian46]

but the use of .223 followers in .50 magazines is not uncommon....

only on the canadian market, C products does not make a 50 Beowulf mag to sell in the USA, nobody does other than Alexander Arms or someone under license from them as they hold a patent in the USA.

However it is not Uncommon in Canada to see mags marketed as 50 Beowulf with a 223 anti tilt follower because everyone selling them here is looking to profit from the guys using them for 223 and are not concerned with the magazines function for the intended purpose, 50 Beowulf

 

[Brian46]

I agree with TinkerBell, the mag body itself is cutout for a 50 beo and the factory finish is on top so it's clear that these aren't just crimped 20 rounders. Maybe CPD is nervous about getting sued by AA for making 50 Beowulf accessories?

all that proves is the mag went through a shear that cuts of that half round before the finish was applied, They are aluminum, notice how one mag is cut so part of the weld was trimmed, that edge is too clean for the mag body to have been welded after it was cut proving my point.

If anyone should be upset here is me as anyone owning a rifle that may now be reduced to a single shot has the most to lose, The RCMP-SFSS is clear in their intention from what has been learned in this thread, It is only a matter of time until they are forced to act, most likely waiting till after C-42.

I am not here to argue they are legal and find it silly to do so when we know exactly why this market exists in canada and nowhere else, simple greed with no accountability, the burden of legality always falls on the end user.

 

[Familygunnutz]

all that proves is the mag went through a shear that cuts of that half round before the finish was applied, They are aluminum, notice how one mag is cut so part of the weld was trimmed, that edge is too clean for the mag body to have been welded after it was cut proving my point.

If anyone should be upset here is me as anyone owning a rifle that may now be reduced to a single shot has the most to lose, The RCMP-SFSS is clear in their intention from what has been learned in this thread, It is only a matter of time until they are forced to act, most likely waiting till after C-42.

I am not here to argue they are legal and find it silly to do so when we know exactly why this market exists in canada and nowhere else, simple greed with no accountability, the burden of legality always falls on the end user.

you don't want anyone to use .50 beo mag for .223, and you don't care that most of us wants to and trying to shoot 15 rds out of our ar 15 legally, you only care about you shooting your 50 beo.
is above pretty much sum up all you've said in this and all other 50beowulf threads?