500 yards with a .308? possible?

Originally Posted by Kelly Timoffee
A true "hunter" is one who gets as close as they can to harvest the animal in the quickest most ethical way.

FYI-If you are in it for the thrill of shooting a long ways just to say you killed something from "X" meters away, you won't find yourself amongst friend in these forums.
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Who are YOU to decide what makes a "real hunter?" Your post is no better than the anti hunters and that kind of attitude sickens me. Why don't you go onto a bow hunting forum and see how those guys feel about what a "real hunter" is? Then maybe you might understand my point.

How someone else chooses to kill their deer is none of your damn business. And you can keep your smarmy selfrighteous judgements to yourself on the matter as far as I am concerned.

I have killed several deer at long range and it never took more than a single bullet. FWIW I used a 30-06 and 168gr match bullet, which has ballistics no better than a typical .308 Win.
 
I think a hug is in order!!!

If you are sickened maybe have some ginger ale.

It is my opinion and I am entitled to it just as you are entitled to yours.

Also I didn't condemn someone's thoughts or ideas.

Excellent work on your marksmanship accomplishments, not everyone is skilled enough for one shot long distance kills on deer.

So please if you don't mind , tell me what the bow hunters think a "real" hunter is , this should be easy since you already know so much about me.





Suputin said:
Who are YOU to decide what makes a "real hunter?" Your post is no better than the anti hunters and that kind of attitude sickens me. Why don't you go onto a bow hunting forum and see how those guys feel about what a "real hunter" is? Then maybe you might understand my point.

How someone else chooses to kill their deer is none of your damn business. And you can keep your smarmy selfrighteous judgements to yourself on the matter as far as I am concerned.

I have killed several deer at long range and it never took more than a single bullet. FWIW I used a 30-06 and 168gr match bullet, which has ballistics no better than a typical .308 Win.
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these post are amusing, now suggesting someone get a close as possible makes u no better than an anti-hunter,seriously? Why someone would choose to shoot an animal at extreme range instead of stocking as close as possible makes sence some how? Very very few hunters are as accurate at 500yds as they would be inside 300
 
grit said:
these post are amusing, now suggesting someone get a close as possible makes u no better than an anti-hunter,seriously? Why someone would choose to shoot an animal at extreme range instead of stocking as close as possible makes sence some how? Very very few hunters are as accurate at 500yds as they would be inside 300
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No absolutes here, but often the 200-250 yard game shots come quickly and the hunter gets no time to get into position, look at range (is that 250 yards or 350???), animal position/demeanor (is it ready to run?). That and the game is often ready to bug out....A tough and chancey shot for the best rifleman.

Set an accomplished long range rifleman 500 yards from undisturbed game in a well thought out rest and the odds favor the longer range shooter.
Give him perfect conditions and the animal is as good as dead.

I know of guys that shoot game in excess of 1000 yards and I know guys that shoot them at 10 yards...To me its all hunting.
To come against guys that do other than you is at least counter productive and I think close minded in a sport that has so many interesting aspects that really are great experiences worth trying.

No offense to anyone.
 
All we need to be concerned about is whether or not hunting is conducted within the law, if its legal, we should leave matters of ethics up to the individual, as clearly what works for one doesn't work for all. It matters not how far the shot is taken from; whenever you press the trigger on a live target, you accept the possibility that you might wound rather than kill cleanly. If you wound, you do your best to track the animal down and kill it with in the shortest period of time, but sometimes it doesn't work out. The blood trail can peter out, the wounded animal can simply outdistances his peruser, the tracks can get lost amongst the tracks of a herd, or it might enter some jungle that cannot be penetrated. If an individual has invested in the time,dedication, and equipment necessary to become a competent long range shot, something which is neither easily or cheaply done, he should be free of criticism when he chooses to use that equipment and carefully honed skill to harvest game. To blaze away wildly at close range results in more wounded and lost game than is lost to the talented long range practitioner. Wild shooting at long range is very unlikely to connect, although those bullets will go somewhere I suppose. But give the good hunters the freedom to do what they are good at, and concentrate your energy in re-educating or ending the career of those whose behavior is truly objectionable.
 
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At 500yds, a 150gn Sierra SBT Game King starting at 2900fps (Sierra's data) will have over 1700fps, and have over 1000ft-lbs of energy. If zeroed at 400yds, then holdover is only 18". Wait for deer to look up, set the horizontal cross-hair on the top of the head, vertical on the shoulder. Result? Dead deer.
Same shot, 165gn Sierra SBT Game King starting at 2700fps is still traveling at over 1700fps and has a terminal energy of almost 1200ft-lbs. Hold over if zeroed at 400yds would be 20". I'd hold pretty much same. Result? Dead deer.
Same shot, 180gn Sierra SBT Game King starting at 2600fps is still traveling at over 1800fps and has 1300ft-lbs of terminal energy. Hold over from 400yd zero is about 20". Same hold.
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My Savage muzzleloaders will get a 300 grain .452" bullet to 400 yards with 1250 foot pounds of energy. Do you suppose that makes it a 400 yard deer cartridge?:evil:
 
A lot depends on the gun, as well as the shooter. A few years back, I picked up an old beat up Midland 308 at a gov't auction. Bluing- what bluing??? Stock had been through a grinder, quite literally, so I stuck an old Ramline synthetic on it, a cheap Bushnell sportview 4-12, and went to the range. Everything in, It cost me 150$, so for a truck gun, I thought it wasn't half bad. That stupid thing would group federal 150's at 5/8 " at 100 yds all day long, 1" with remingtons, 1/4" with winnies. It really loved the federals. At the 325 mark, longest point of our range, it was "arse of pop can" accurate all day. Even stumped some the the local police boys out for a qualifying session. Worst part was the headspace on this thing was loose! Later found out it would just close on a no-go gauge, reloading was fun with anything this gun fired. There's no way this thing should have did what it did, but did it ever! Wound up selling it to one of the police boys, think he still has it. So the gun still plays a large role in the game. Some are luckier than others, others are built to be good.
 
It is my opinion and I am entitled to it just as you are entitled to yours.

Also I didn't condemn someone's thoughts or ideas.
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Calling someone who doesn't do as you do not a "real hunter" IS condemnation.

So please if you don't mind , tell me what the bow hunters think a "real" hunter is
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A bow hunter would call you exactly what you have called those of us who choose to hunt at long range .... not a "real hunter" because you choose to use a high powered rifle and optics rather than killing it with an arrow at really close range.

For those who are confused, this is the exact same kind of sentiment the anti's use against anyone who hunts. Why on earth would anyone want to kill a deer when you can buy a steak in a grocery store?

That kind of statement should piss you off for its arrogance .... the exact same way your arrogance on how I choose to hunt pisses me off.

Why someone would choose to shoot an animal at extreme range instead of stocking as close as possible makes sence some how? Very very few hunters are as accurate at 500yds as they would be inside 300
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Because I FRIGGEN CHOOSE TO! How and why I hunt as I choose is none of your business and no snide, morally superior, "true hunter" kind of comments are required from the peanut gallery!

If you think it is OK to tell others how they should hunt or question their method of hunting then why can't the anti's question how and why YOU hunt?

Before you choose to spout off next time maybe take a look in the mirror and ask if you'd want someone else asking why you "need" or "want" to do something gun or hunting related.
 
If people don't want Comments on how they hunt maybe they shouldn't go online as a keyboard hunter and tell everyone they just killed something at 600yds! or shot a deer with open sights in a gravel pit at 750yds and that it was dumb luck and nothing to do with skill! How you hunt is your choice, but if you don't want any feed back , then don't spout off from behind a keyboard. You talk about anti hunters, nothing feeds them more than some guy online talking about shooting animals at a 1/4 mile
 
You sound upset about the whole thing it seems.

Not once did YOU ask how I hunt , not once did YOU ask how far I shoot MY animals, nor did I tell you, YOU just assumed.Taking things and twisting them out of proportion is something an ANTI would do, don't you agree?

I think it is best for all that people read these posts with an open mind, YOU are the only one who seems very upset and on the verge of cardiac arrest , if it is so upsetting maybe YOU should go to a needle point forum or cake decorating if YOU cannot respect what others opinions are and these post make YOU so upset.

I don't even have to argue my case, you are doing quite well for me.

I am sure this thread will soon be locked so I am gonna give YOU a piece of advice:

Go turn on some tunes, roll a fattie , grab a beer and a bag of chips and relax.Obviously your work day has given you great stress and I hope that you can relax and still be friends with us here. :)

p.s. You sound like another member that used to be very upset with my posts for some reason or another. :confused:

And we are now WAY off topic. How bout them .308's??




Suputin said:
Calling someone who doesn't do as you do not a "real hunter" IS condemnation.



A bow hunter would call you exactly what you have called those of us who choose to hunt at long range .... not a "real hunter" because you choose to use a high powered rifle and optics rather than killing it with an arrow at really close range.

For those who are confused, this is the exact same kind of sentiment the anti's use against anyone who hunts. Why on earth would anyone want to kill a deer when you can buy a steak in a grocery store?

That kind of statement should piss you off for its arrogance .... the exact same way your arrogance on how I choose to hunt pisses me off.



Because I FRIGGEN CHOOSE TO! How and why I hunt as I choose is none of your business and no snide, morally superior, "true hunter" kind of comments are required from the peanut gallery!

If you think it is OK to tell others how they should hunt or question their method of hunting then why can't the anti's question how and why YOU hunt?

Before you choose to spout off next time maybe take a look in the mirror and ask if you'd want someone else asking why you "need" or "want" to do something gun or hunting related.
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I've shot the .308 (7.62x51mm 147 gn NATO FMJBT )while in the army and I can say that the 308 is a good 500 meter round. We would shoot at that range on a regular basis. You ask what would be concidered a tight group at that range? 1 MOA would be tight (a bit over 5" at 500 meters) Incidently, the military concidered 800 meters max effective range.. For the FNC2. Although the disc aperture sight on that rifle was from 200 to 1000.
For the FNC1 the disc was from 200 to 600 meters.
 
the ranges quoted for the c2 were somewhat dependent on your weapons instuctor,or whatever you happened to call him( no offense, girls, but i doubt if there were ANY female weapons people at the time) as we were quoted "10 pounds fully loaded" for the c1, and the c2 had an effective range of 1100 yards- now as to why a 600 yard effective range cartridge in one rifle suddenly grew to 1100 yards in a burst fire gun, we weren't told,- it was not for us gomers to question , simply to do- we were also told to set the sights for 1000 if the target was 9 or 1100 and you'd probably hit - the 100 yards diff didn't matter- it was when i went to advanced that we learned about trajectories, windage, and all that good stuff- stuff the americans teach in basic
 
t-star said:
the ranges quoted for the c2 were somewhat dependent on your weapons instuctor,or whatever you happened to call him( no offense, girls, but i doubt if there were ANY female weapons people at the time) as we were quoted "10 pounds fully loaded" for the c1, and the c2 had an effective range of 1100 yards- now as to why a 600 yard effective range cartridge in one rifle suddenly grew to 1100 yards in a burst fire gun, we weren't told,- it was not for us gomers to question , simply to do- we were also told to set the sights for 1000 if the target was 9 or 1100 and you'd probably hit - the 100 yards diff didn't matter- it was when i went to advanced that we learned about trajectories, windage, and all that good stuff- stuff the americans teach in basic
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You are right there, the C2 at max range was not a point neutralizing weapon, it was an area neutralizing weapon what with a beaten zone and all. I think the point of my speal was that a .308 or 7.62 was capable of a tight group at 500 meters with a properly trained soldier, of course. With wind and other factors, the groups would open up somewhat.
 
Another point I forgot to mention was the consistancy of the ammunition. I stripped apart about 100 rounds of IVI ammo and weighed the bullets. They varied from 146.3 gns to 148.7gns! The C1 rifle, with iron sights at 500 meters, could not really get a tight group (under 6")unless you were really lucky. All things being equal, with match ammo and a scoped rifle, I'm sure you can achieve much tighter groups now that we could at that range with what we were issued with.
BTW, A few years ago, I put together some "mexican match ammo" I just replaced the ball with some sierra 150 gn spitzer boat tail and the groups at 400 meters were very good averaging 3.5 " with 5 rounds! but that was with my own scoped rifle, prone off a bipod.
I don't know what powder IVI was using, I sure would like to find more!
 
Put up a pie plate for a target. Aim for the center. If all your rounds hit the plate you are off to a tremendous start. Yes you can!
 
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Set an accomplished long range rifleman 500 yards from undisturbed game in a well thought out rest and the odds favor the longer range shooter.
Give him perfect conditions and the animal is as good as dead.

This is a fact!
 
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