I used to compete at 1000 to 1200 yards at Bisley with a rebarrelledd P14 and often out shoot the RN team with their Musgraves. I was handloading 220 matchkings. Would I have fired at deer at that distance? Back then yes but I knew very little about deer then! 20 years of deer stalking teaches a lot!
500 yards with a .308? possible?
- Thread starter 69mustang
- Start date
Frankly I consider a hunter a killer.....How it happens matters not to me.
5 yards or 550 yards hunting is a thrill.
Guys brag about all kinds of accomplishments here. Game sniped from a carefully prepped spot can be more precise and ethical than any of "a box a year Bubbas" shots.
It is certainly no less of an accomplishment.
If you are a bow hunter (I am) people will hate you for shooting game at 50 yards. They shoot a few arrows in practice and I shoot a tens of thousands.
Yet the same guy that shoots a few will get on his high horse and say it shouldn't be done.
Same goes with the rifle.
I know a few guys more qualified at shooting a buck at 500 yards than Bubba at 50. The difference is the guy that really knows his stuff will look at everything going on and tell if if he can pretty much guarantee the shot...Bubba just blazes away. sh1t can happen at either range....Much more likely to Bubba.
Does that make him less of a hunter than Bubba?
I think we need to get off our high horses and help point guys that want to try long range so they can see and learn first hand what they are up against.
Then let them make an educated decision on the ethics and probability of such a shot themselves.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Soooo, we've somehow gone from 500 yards on paper with a 308 to 500 yards on an ANIMAL with a 308??!!
Hownthe HECK did that happen?
IF one is going to hunt at 500 yard and such distances, the 308 ( as was stated) is a non- starter, except for getting the amount of practise in for when you use your long range hunting rifle!!
I have more than a little experience at both targets and critters at distance, and will not use the 308 on critters those distances.
Cat
Hownthe HECK did that happen?
IF one is going to hunt at 500 yard and such distances, the 308 ( as was stated) is a non- starter, except for getting the amount of practise in for when you use your long range hunting rifle!!
I have more than a little experience at both targets and critters at distance, and will not use the 308 on critters those distances.
Cat
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Wasn't it the OP that stated he wanted to "do damage" to animals out past 500???
Soooo, we've somehow gone from 500 yards on paper with a 308 to 500 yards on an ANIMAL with a 308??!!
Hownthe HECK did that happen?
IF one is going to hunt at 500 yard and such distances, the 308 ( as was stated) is a non- starter, except for getting the amount of practise in for when you use your long range hunting rifle!!
I have more than a little experience at both targets and critters at distance, and will not use the 308 on critters those distances.
Cat
Soooo, we've somehow gone from 500 yards on paper with a 308 to 500 yards on an ANIMAL with a 308??!!
Hownthe HECK did that happen?
IF one is going to hunt at 500 yard and such distances, the 308 ( as was stated) is a non- starter, except for getting the amount of practise in for when you use your long range hunting rifle!!
I have more than a little experience at both targets and critters at distance, and will not use the 308 on critters those distances.
Cat
How do you figure this? How much terminal energy do you believe is necessary to kill a deer?
At 500yds, a 150gn Sierra SBT Game King starting at 2900fps (Sierra's data) will have over 1700fps, and have over 1000ft-lbs of energy. If zeroed at 400yds, then holdover is only 18". Wait for deer to look up, set the horizontal cross-hair on the top of the head, vertical on the shoulder. Result? Dead deer.
Same shot, 165gn Sierra SBT Game King starting at 2700fps is still traveling at over 1700fps and has a terminal energy of almost 1200ft-lbs. Hold over if zeroed at 400yds would be 20". I'd hold pretty much same. Result? Dead deer.
Same shot, 180gn Sierra SBT Game King starting at 2600fps is still traveling at over 1800fps and has 1300ft-lbs of terminal energy. Hold over from 400yd zero is about 20". Same hold.
So, please, tell me how the he!! this chambering is a "non-starter" for hunting deer at distances over 500yds? Each bullet mentioned has sufficient punch and acceptable hold-over. Can Bubba make the shot? Not a chance in he!!. Can someone who shoots and knows his/her rifle? Damn straight!! Just need to make sure that you choose a bullet that will still open up at those lower velocities, hence the Game Kings. Designed to be accurate and perform properly at the lower velocities of long distance.
I'd take the shot, but haven't needed to in many, many years. I can hit a 10" gong at 500yds, 9 out of 10 times with my .308. But that's no off-hand shot, for sure. I'd want to be absolutely sure that the range is right and I would have to be knowing ahead of time that the shot was going to be needed to properly prep for it.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
It's a non starter IMO because there a many cartridges out there that are far more suitable, and if one has the time to practise long range shooting for long range hunting , one has enough money to put together a purpose built rifle for long range hunting.
I've been shooting and hunting at distance ( and closer) for 40 years, and
these are my findings , and that is my opinion, take it for what it is , only my opinion.
10" gong at 500?
We shoot clays for practice at 500 with irons.
But like I said, I can shoot the 308 all day at 500, but you won't see a 308 in my long range rifle line up.
Cat
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Well let me get my compound bow out and I'll show you all some long range shooting!!!
Think the thread has swayed a couple different ways here, IMO it is a case of running before you can walk no disrespect to the OP, but when you state you want to accomplish certain degrees of marksmanship or hunting without stating any previous experience and just want to do it because ,you open yourself up to many and varying opinions.
Gotta remember, there are folks on here that have hunted for years, shot competition for years , and some that have combined both in one style of hunting/shooting.Not something you do over night , heck, hitting a baseball sized target at 200m is still pretty good shooting.When you stretch it out to the great beyond there is a lot that can and will go wrong and many variables in between.
I just hope that the intention of the OP and others similar is not Hollywood influenced and is genuinely a test of ones self and abilities to improve on skills and knowledge and not at the expense of safety and game animals.
Think the thread has swayed a couple different ways here, IMO it is a case of running before you can walk no disrespect to the OP, but when you state you want to accomplish certain degrees of marksmanship or hunting without stating any previous experience and just want to do it because ,you open yourself up to many and varying opinions.
Gotta remember, there are folks on here that have hunted for years, shot competition for years , and some that have combined both in one style of hunting/shooting.Not something you do over night , heck, hitting a baseball sized target at 200m is still pretty good shooting.When you stretch it out to the great beyond there is a lot that can and will go wrong and many variables in between.
I just hope that the intention of the OP and others similar is not Hollywood influenced and is genuinely a test of ones self and abilities to improve on skills and knowledge and not at the expense of safety and game animals.
Alright, I can allow you your opinion. And even agree with it to a point. However, as to your "long range line-up" Bisley was shot for years with "just" .308 Parker Hale target rifles. What was that distance again? That's pretty much long range for me.
But my next question is: Do you shoot those clays with a $300 Mossberg 100ATR? That's what I shoot the 10" gong with. And that makes me happy. End of story. Still think I can take the deer with it.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
You THINK??!!
For your information, I have killed things at 500 with the 308, and it doesn't impress.
Bisley ? Nowhere did I state you couldn't hit a target at 1,000 with a 308, I do it regularly with irons and sling, and do it fairly well , with the 308, the .303 British, and the .223 with black powder cartridges as well .
And yes I shoot clays at 500 with a $300 Stevens 200 every now and then
Cat
Thank you. Many reasons why I do not call my self a long-range shot, nor do I visit the Precision Rifle forum.
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
A custom 308 tuned to the t**s and holding 1/2 MOA pushing a 208g Amax out of a long bbl with R17 powder can hit 2600fps. This gives 1834 fps at 600 yards and 23" of wind drift with a 10 mph cross wind with a best potential 3" group.
A factory 300mag holding 1MOA and a hand load of a 180g accubond at 3000fps gives 1934fps at 600 yards and 26" of wind drift with a 10mph cross wind and a best potential of a 6" group.
Even when comparing the 308 to the 300win mag it still comes down to correct equipment and personal skill more so than cartridge. Average joe buying an off the shelf 300mag won't automatically beat out a guy who has his #### together shooting a 308.
A factory 300mag holding 1MOA and a hand load of a 180g accubond at 3000fps gives 1934fps at 600 yards and 26" of wind drift with a 10mph cross wind and a best potential of a 6" group.
Even when comparing the 308 to the 300win mag it still comes down to correct equipment and personal skill more so than cartridge. Average joe buying an off the shelf 300mag won't automatically beat out a guy who has his #### together shooting a 308.
It doesnt need to be an expensive custom target rifle to hit MOA or sub moa and keep it good out to 1000 yards. It needs a steady shooter who is well trained, practised and confident in his kit. It helps to have a half decent rifle but good ammo out of an average rifle beats mediocre out of a custon rig every time if the shooter does their bit!
Amen.
This is what I am referring to when we speak to new long range shooters.
The careful selection of components will indeed extend the useful range of the 308Win.
The 208 Amax comes with a few potential hazards that should also might need to be factored into the mix (I have zero game experience with this one)...Shooting a moose up close in the shoulder may result in an odd lack of penetration...We need to represent the complete and rounded truth or at least present options and potential downfalls.
Anyway I'm going back down to the pool its 32 degrees in Mexico!
Peace!
This piqued my curiosity. Why did it not impress? I just looked it up and the .308 with 180gr Ballistic Tips is moving along at the same velocity as a 170gr out of a .30-30 at 100 yards, and a 165gr Ballistic Tip or Accubond is a bit faster.
Now, I haven't shot a single thing with a .308 at 500 yards, but it seems that the performance at that range is very similar to a .30-30 at 100 yards. In my view the 170gr .30-30 load is quite satisfactory for deer at 100 yards.
I've seen a few tests on factory stock Remington 5R Mil-Specs that gave 1/4 to 1/3 MOA. This test showed considerably better performance :
http://www.tobystactical.com/2007/11/remington-700-ss-5r-milspec.html
Not bad for ~$1200 imo.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Similar on paper but that's where it ends.
The actual killing examples I have seen at around the 500 yard mark compared to my other cartridges leaves it wanting.
That being said, if I were to buy a rifle for long range hunting, it would NOT be a 308.
Years ago I doubt there were many experienced gunmen who recommended the 7.62 nato as a 500 yard killer except for military applications, but these days everybody seems to be a 500 yard killer of game.
There are much better cartridges out there for 500+ yards as I stated, but the 308 is fine at closer distances.
If i needed to buy only one rifle for hunting , and planned on goinf further than 350, it would not be the 308.
Just my opinion, FWIW....
Cat
Going back 20 years ago the combo rig my cousin and I used was the .308 Rem 700 Varmint heavy barrel with a B&L Elite 4000 (no mil-dots) mounted on top with handloads (mil-spec, bullet weight and FPS, for easier reference to sniper manuals).
Let me put it this was to you.... Every weekend at OSGC... 50 - 100 rds at 300 yards.... shooting when it was windy, NOT when it was calm (learning to read the wind and direction) and can place 3 shot's under a 1/2 inch. At 100 yard... 3 shot - 1 hole. We spent ALOT of $$$$ and time doing the target shooting we did. We practiced even in the worst of winters and many times got stuck going up the hill from the rifle range at the OSGC. Aaaaah... the fun days.
Practiced our skills in the field on ground hogs, up to 600 yards. No range finders back then for us. Just scoping it and eyeing it. Refering to our notes and bagging them gofers. Most of the time we had successful hunts but some days not so good.
But it paid off... we got envited up to Borden one weekend and man that was an experience... 900 meter range, from the time you dropped the hammer till the time the bullet hit the metal plate at 900 meters was about 1.5 sec's. Now being in the 900 meter berm marking the holes where the bullet hit was cool... hearing those bullets wizz by....
. I was not as good as my cousing for this drill but my cousin place 3 out of 5 shots into one of those day-glow orange plugs (about 3 - 4 inches in diameter IIRC) they used to insert into the paper target to show you where your bullet placed on the target... That's is TIGHT!!! 
There were other drills that we performed that I excelled better than my cousin but after all was done we both did very very well and was told that for ordinary citizens we shot better than LEO. I eventually sold my 700 to that organizer... I wonder if he still owns it to this day?
Long story short to answer your question. It's not just your rig but your passion for your sport. How much you're willing to spend. How much time you spend shooting in the worst conditions because waiting for that perfect calm day is far from few at 300 yards and beyond. Read Read Read... buy all them sniper books you can find and not just them story books but the manual type that shows you how to take notes for every shot you take to knowing how to read the wind.
Good Luck.
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- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Today I was fooling around with the B&C reticle on my scope with some new loads.
This is at 500m with a 7mm-08 fooling around off the pack and bipod.
This is at 500m with a 7mm-08 fooling around off the pack and bipod.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
You didn't dot the "I" in platinum.
Today I was fooling around with the B&C reticle on my scope with some new loads.
This is at 500m with a 7mm-08 fooling around off the pack and bipod.
