6.5 Creedmoor vs 243 for deer/coyotes?

Superbrad said:
Great anecdotal post with nothing to back it up..... Where can I find unbiased places to do some research?.....

The gun manufacturers that are now producing this "new cartridge"?

The gun mag writers that cater to the above?.....

You made a statement.... Prove it...
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Says the guy insinuating that the performance numbers published by the manufacturers and gun media are incorrect and deceitful. Do you really think in this day and age that they wouldn’t be caught and called out? Why don’t you prove they’re wrong? Not that I really care; I’m going to shoot what works for me.

Can .243 work for Moose? Probably. Can .17HMR work for Coyote? Probably. Can you kill a moose with .17HMR? Yeah, probably. But I won’t be the one doing it.
 
TT1900 said:
Says the guy insinuating that the performance numbers published by the manufacturers and gun media are incorrect and deceitful. Do you really think in this day and age that they wouldn’t be caught and called out? Why don’t you prove they’re wrong? Not that I really care; I’m going to shoot what works for me.

Can .243 work for Moose? Probably. Can .17HMR work for Coyote? Probably. Can you kill a moose with .17HMR? Yeah, probably. But I won’t be the one doing it.
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To be fair, the “sniper country” link that was posted above as “proof”, dealt in avwrages to ahow the 6.5’s superiority over the 243. However it was done using averages of factory loads, of which the slickest and heaviest 6.5 loads were chosen, and “average hunting loads” in the 243 were used, as well as the three lightest fastest loads available. The article as written is pretty much toilet paper (although reading it on an ipad makes that a difficult proposition, as well as expensive) as it didn’t compare
bullets that are similar.

All in all, for deer and down both cartridges are very similar. Given a smaller statured shooter, find a rifle
that fits properly and go from there.
 
The advantage creedmore has on 243 is projectile development. Both 6.5 and 7mm have great bullets; whereas, 6mm and .257 not so much. Creedmore also seems to have factory ammo in those good bullets, loaded to performance equal to handloading.

Between them, flip a coin. The 243 has been around for ever, better/unlimited brass, ammo available at Walmart or any Ma n Pa in ah of nowhere.

Neither would be my choice for anything larger than deer. Certainly not a large animal at anything except short range.

Shot my first Moose with a Ruger M77 tang 243 at 70 yards. Have three older brothers, all took their first with the same gun....5 in total. Now i have better choices, would not choose either a coyote or target rifle.
 
As they are both short action cartridges it shouldn't be hard to find a rifle that fits in either cartridge. The 6.5 bullets will have more energy, especially down range. I believe the 243 would be a better choice for coyotes and smaller game, for deer it doesn't matter between the two, for moose and elk the 6.5 cm will have an advantage. I believe the cm is more versatile. For me, big game cartridges start at 6.5 and up.
 
KodiakHntr said:
To be fair, the “sniper country” link that was posted above as “proof”, dealt in avwrages to ahow the 6.5’s superiority over the 243. However it was done using averages of factory loads, of which the slickest and heaviest 6.5 loads were chosen, and “average hunting loads” in the 243 were used, as well as the three lightest fastest loads available. The article as written is pretty much toilet paper (although reading it on an ipad makes that a difficult proposition, as well as expensive) as it didn’t compare
bullets that are similar.

All in all, for deer and down both cartridges are very similar. Given a smaller statured shooter, find a rifle
that fits properly and go from there.
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Fair enough. I didn’t read the “Sniper Country” link. As soon as the words “sniper” or “tactical” are mentioned in relation to hunting I try my best to no longer pay attention.
 
Have a couple .260's here, and have had a .243. Given a choice, I would go 6.5 every time over a .243, for coyote up to moose.

You can load a 6.5 down, but can only go up so far with the .243. Fwiw, I started my 10 year old with a .22lr and a .22 hornet.
 
blargon said:
Have a couple .260's here, and have had a .243. Given a choice, I would go 6.5 every time over a .243, for coyote up to moose.

You can load a 6.5 down, but can only go up so far with the .243. Fwiw, I started my 10 year old with a .22lr and a .22 hornet.
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For deer hunting?
 
pete dobinson said:
As they are both short action cartridges it shouldn't be hard to find a rifle that fits in either cartridge. The 6.5 bullets will have more energy, especially down range. I believe the 243 would be a better choice for coyotes and smaller game, for deer it doesn't matter between the two, for moose and elk the 6.5 cm will have an advantage. I believe the cm is more versatile. For me, big game cartridges start at 6.5 and up.
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This ! RJ
 
rkm456 said:
It's a classic case of old boys club.
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Or, you know, it's a classic case of "should I get a gun specifically for my kid who's a bit recoil shy or should I get myself a new toy and hope he can use it effectively too". At least that's how I read the OP. If the kid is looking to get into hunting, you should be doing everything in your power to support that, which includes getting him his own gun that's specifically tailored to his size and needs IMO.

Besides, you can always sell whatever you get now and buy something bigger down the road. Start with the least amount of recoil that'll effectively do the job, and work your way up over time. The last thing you want is to make the kid lose interest due to recoil IMO.
 
Superbrad said:
Please explain why the 6.5 is better for larger game?......
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todbartell said:
Are you contesting that a 6.5mm is a superior choice to a 243 for hunting game larger than deer?
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Suther said:
Or, you know, it's a classic case of "should I get a gun specifically for my kid who's a bit recoil shy or should I get myself a new toy and hope he can use it effectively too". At least that's how I read the OP. If the kid is looking to get into hunting, you should be doing everything in your power to support that, which includes getting him his own gun that's specifically tailored to his size and needs IMO.

Besides, you can always sell whatever you get now and buy something bigger down the road. Start with the least amount of recoil that'll effectively do the job, and work your way up over time. The last thing you want is to make the kid lose interest due to recoil IMO.
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If it’s about recoil tolerance then 6.5 Grendel is the way to go. 243 vs CM recoil aren’t that much.
 
Suther said:
Or, you know, it's a classic case of "should I get a gun specifically for my kid who's a bit recoil shy or should I get myself a new toy and hope he can use it effectively too". At least that's how I read the OP. If the kid is looking to get into hunting, you should be doing everything in your power to support that, which includes getting him his own gun that's specifically tailored to his size and needs IMO.

Besides, you can always sell whatever you get now and buy something bigger down the road. Start with the least amount of recoil that'll effectively do the job, and work your way up over time. The last thing you want is to make the kid lose interest due to recoil IMO.
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I agree. The focus should be 100% on the kid making it as pleasurable as possible while still maintaining effectiveness.

The 243 is the most versatile for coyote to deer and will be the most enjoyable for the kid to shoot. Also people tend to forget that it's not just about the kid being able to handle that one shot while hunting. The kid needs to spend time behind the trigger practicing his/her shooting skills before they hit the field. Make that time practicing as pleasurable as possible and the kid will be able to improve on their shooting skills better because they will be able to focus on their shooting and not the recoil.

Get a few boxes of the Hornady Custom Lite and let the kid enjoy the experience.

https://www.reliablegun.com/hk/horn...7gr-sst-custom-lite-reduced-recoil-20-rds-box

Daddy can get himself a new rifle another time :d

Just my .02
 
Gatehouse said:
If it’s about recoil tolerance then 6.5 Grendel is the way to go. 243 vs CM recoil aren’t that much.
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Much easier to find guns and ammo in 243 though, and it'll do the job just fine. Nothing wrong with the Grendel, but not as easy or cheap to get. The guns that are available in it are nice though.
 
wow, I didn't think this was going to blow up and cause such a fuss.

I will admit, I was wondering if I could get away with one rifle to satisfy my son's hunting needs and my 6.5 itch at the same time. Easier to sell it to the wife that way.

I'm 5'10" and he's 5'6", 11 and growing like a weed. It wont be long he's going to be way taller than me (his mom is 6' and his uncle's are all well over 6'2"). I am sorry if my thought of good for him today and useful to me tomorrow is so distasteful to you guys.

Legal minium hunting in QC is 12, and his Birthday is after the hunt, so it's going to be about 2 seasons out anyways, lots can change for him physically.

My son currently shoots my 22 with great ease and pleasure, and has shot my 30-30, a number of 223 at the range and a 308 a few times. He feels that the 308 is a bit more than he would like to handle away from a bench, or to shoot enough to truly know his gun.

It's great to hear that the recoil of the 6.5 isn't much more than the 243, and the that the 6.5 has a better ethical creature reach than the 243 does.

Thanks for all your insights and commentary
 
Suther said:
Or, you know, it's a classic case of "should I get a gun specifically for my kid who's a bit recoil shy or should I get myself a new toy and hope he can use it effectively too". At least that's how I read the OP. If the kid is looking to get into hunting, you should be doing everything in your power to support that, which includes getting him his own gun that's specifically tailored to his size and needs IMO.

Besides, you can always sell whatever you get now and buy something bigger down the road. Start with the least amount of recoil that'll effectively do the job, and work your way up over time. The last thing you want is to make the kid lose interest due to recoil IMO.
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Sorry, I didn't know we were pretending that the 6.5 is an insatiable recoil monster.
 
rkm456 said:
Sorry, I didn't know we were pretending that the 6.5 is an insatiable recoil monster.
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Recoil is highly subjective. For some, the difference is enough to matter. When introducing kids to the sport, I err on the side of caution.

In a 7.5lb rifle:
308win (150gr @ 2800) = 15.8ft lbs
260rem (120@ 2860)=13 ft lbs
243win (100@ 2960)=8.8 ft lbs

Heavier 308 will recoil more, making the difference between 308 and the CM more significant but the 243 is always going to have notably less recoil unless you're using custom hand loads.

OP If he's not hunting for another 2 seasons, then you can likely get away with thinking good for you today, useful to him tomorrow rather than the other way around. If you've already got a 223 and a 30-30 those are plenty for him to practice with for the next year.
 
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