The recipe has never been a thing that I know of..... But advertised velocity has been....
Just to further my point, did the recipe perform as expected?
6.5 Creedmoor vs 243 for deer/coyotes?
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The recipe has never been a thing that I know of..... But advertised velocity has been....
Just to further my point, did the recipe perform as expected?
Never seen a manufacturer do that before...... More used to the specs on the box not matching the actuals.....
I think his point is that if you follow simple directions you’ll get very close to the numbers published on the box.
I’ve quite easily replicated a few loads of factory ammo, though I’ve never owned a .270 so can’t speak to that one in particular. The 139gr SST Hornady Superperformace load (7-08) comes to mind. They claim 2950 out of a 24” barrel. Last I checked my load clocked in at a shade over 2800 from a 20” barrel. Factor in some barrels are faster than others it makes sense to me. I’ve done similar with 30-06.
In fairness, my loads/rifles are a very small sample size and neither of my rifles are chambered in “fast” cartridges. That may change the game; I have no idea. In my experience it’s not hard to match loads for 7-08 or 30-06.
I’ve quite easily replicated a few loads of factory ammo, though I’ve never owned a .270 so can’t speak to that one in particular. The 139gr SST Hornady Superperformace load (7-08) comes to mind. They claim 2950 out of a 24” barrel. Last I checked my load clocked in at a shade over 2800 from a 20” barrel. Factor in some barrels are faster than others it makes sense to me. I’ve done similar with 30-06.
In fairness, my loads/rifles are a very small sample size and neither of my rifles are chambered in “fast” cartridges. That may change the game; I have no idea. In my experience it’s not hard to match loads for 7-08 or 30-06.
And that is great..... In the interest of honesty, I have never seen load data on a box like that.... Just overhyped velocity...
Eats crow 3 times in one thread. What a clown, Hoytcannins parroting tag alongLaughing!
..........In my experience 243 recoils less than 6.5 creedmoor. The 243 I had weighed the same as 2 6.5’s I currently have (7.25lbs with optic). I shoot heavy for caliber bullets from all of them (100 grains in the 243, 143 grains in the 6.5’s) and to me the 6.5’s have quite a bit more recoil.
Do you handload? That may play a factor in the flexibility of either cartridge for you.
You can get the 95 grain V max for the 6.5 for coyotes, though I haven’t used it and don’t know if it’s fur friendly or not. I would think the 243 loaded with a 55 grain bullet would be a little more fur friendly.
I would recommend making sure the rifle in question fits your son, that will play a roll in perceived recoil.
Do you handload? That may play a factor in the flexibility of either cartridge for you.
You can get the 95 grain V max for the 6.5 for coyotes, though I haven’t used it and don’t know if it’s fur friendly or not. I would think the 243 loaded with a 55 grain bullet would be a little more fur friendly.
I would recommend making sure the rifle in question fits your son, that will play a roll in perceived recoil.
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This is absolutely correct.
I've had 9-13 year old kids go from shooting 22's to 9mm handguns, .223, 7.62x39 and 20 gauge within an hour. Some of them went on to shoot a 50 BMG afterwards. (youngest 50 cal shooter was a 12 year old girl, gun was bigger than her)
Kids are only afraid of things that adults tell them to be afraid of. Many parents make a big deal about their kids shooting bigger than 22LR, which is absolutely the wrong thing to do. I suspect it's because the parents themselves are not very experienced with shooting other than infrequent range visits and some hunting a couple of times a year. Some parents also bury their kids in over the top instruction and supervision. What kids need to do is have a bit of basic instruction and let them fly at it while you keep an eye on them to ensure safety. They don't need a critique after every shot, there is plenty of time for them to learn excellent shooting technique.
I've seen lots of kids using full size handguns, rifles and shotguns shoot like machines. I've also seen full grown men rub their shoulders and talk about heavy recoil after a few rounds of trap loads.
Here is a 13 year old (not mine) shooting my 375 Ruger. However, sustained recoil is an issue with most people. If you are going to have a kid pop off 100 rounds in a day the less recoil the better. Your wallet feels better also.
No offence was taken.... My point was that my 15 year old (skinny build) is shooting my 243 compact with ease.... I don't see why he couldn't handle the 6.5 creed.....
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This is absolutely correct.
I've had 9-13 year old kids go from shooting 22's to 9mm handguns, .223, 7.62x39 and 20 gauge within an hour. Some of them went on to shoot a 50 BMG afterwards. (youngest 50 cal shooter was a 12 year old girl, gun was bigger than her)
Kids are only afraid of things that adults tell them to be afraid of. Many parents make a big deal about their kids shooting bigger than 22LR, which is absolutely the wrong thing to do. I suspect it's because the parents themselves are not very experienced with shooting other than infrequent range visits and some hunting a couple of times a year. Some parents also bury their kids in over the top instruction and supervision. What kids need to do is have a bit of basic instruction and let them fly at it while you keep an eye on them to ensure safety. They don't need a critique after every shot, there is plenty of time for them to learn excellent shooting technique.
I've seen lots of kids using full size handguns, rifles and shotguns shoot like machines. I've also seen full grown men rub their shoulders and talk about heavy recoil after a few rounds of trap loads.
Not entirely... my dad never told me to be afraid of the 12ga I was given at the age of 11. Fortunately I liked to shoot so much that I soldiered on, but the affects of the intense recoil delivered by that single shot Cooey resided in my mind for years that I was plagued with flinch issues. Because a kid is making the gun go bang and not really complaining about it doesn't mean the experience is as enjoyable as it should be. Put a blank in the magazine so as to surprise them and it'll become abundantly clear. I am intimately familiar with this and even to this day a heavier recoiling gun sometimes makes me tense. I've watched lots of kids shoot (some I was teaching) and with that empty chamber click, the shyness of recoil and muzzle blast is obviously clear.
OP- I'm not berating your choice, or two options out of some sort of malice: from my own difficulty, there are better choices for game up to and including deer/black bear. I am a strong proponent for brilliant options like the 250savage or 6x47L, or 6.5G, 6mm BR ... and manufacturers have their heads stuck somewhere else but reality, pushing inferior options for youth calibers. But he's your son: you won't be endangering him in anyway, but you will be ignoring years of experience in favour of what is "popular now" and "oh, that ammo is available in every conceivable configuration." It just has to be available, and adequate for the intended job but the foremost concern should be "am I going to be making him prone to flinching well into adulthood?" You don't see the habit develop until it's too late. Keep the recoil and muzzle blast low until proper technique is ingrained... then use a rifle with as low recoil and muzzle blast as practical until Jr. is full grown and by that point the correct technique will be second nature, dad's big game rifle will just be another cool gun to shoot. One must remember that a boy will have a tendency to emulate dad and seek his approval: reporting difficulty with recoil won't be first nature.
BTW. I noticed a small Howa on the EE chambered in 6.5G. If your tastes are more expensive, there is a beautiful Cooper21 in 6x47. If you are remain set on your first two options, get the 243... It has a disproportionately loud bang, but the recoil is light: consider handloading heavier bullets at reduced velocity (~<2700fps 100gr). Whatever you get, a properly fitted recoil pad is an asset.
Plenty there that perform over what the box says like Todd showed with his test.
A fast 20" barrel can run with (or beat) a slow 24"....You can definitely repeatably match SOME advertisements on boxes consistently. It ain't all marketing wank. Its what it did in THEIR barrel. The nature of rifles is such that my loads probably won't have the chrono velocities I get if fired outta someone else's.
A fast 20" barrel can run with (or beat) a slow 24"....You can definitely repeatably match SOME advertisements on boxes consistently. It ain't all marketing wank. Its what it did in THEIR barrel. The nature of rifles is such that my loads probably won't have the chrono velocities I get if fired outta someone else's.
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