6mm build
- Thread starter Robmcleod82
- Start date
Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
Well took the plunge and ordered up a 6x47 reamer and die set. Time to rebarrel the old .308
Figure I will put this one together with an MDT HS3 chassis, Cadex Trigger and Benchmark 1:8 twist barrel. Each of the suppliers sponsored the Alberta Poker Rally shoot this year so I figured it was a great opportunity to support the vendors that supported us!
Too bad I wont be able to get this one built in time for the Poker Rally, but it was great to see all the suppport for the match, figured I would get another build together using parts from all of our sponsors. Excited to see this one come together later this year.
Figure I will put this one together with an MDT HS3 chassis, Cadex Trigger and Benchmark 1:8 twist barrel. Each of the suppliers sponsored the Alberta Poker Rally shoot this year so I figured it was a great opportunity to support the vendors that supported us!
Too bad I wont be able to get this one built in time for the Poker Rally, but it was great to see all the suppport for the match, figured I would get another build together using parts from all of our sponsors. Excited to see this one come together later this year.
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Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
That was the deciding factor for me. I ended up being stuck between the 6SLR and the 6x47. After seeing all the work Mystic went through to make brass, I completely dropped the 6XC. I spoke with Tubbs and they wont ship and I didn't want to deal with importing brass when there are so many 6mm options that all do the same thing.
The Lapua brass sold me on the cartridge, plus Peter at Hirsch has always been great to deal with, always seems to have 6.5x47 brass in stock and big surprise was another sponsor of our shoot!
The Lapua brass sold me on the cartridge, plus Peter at Hirsch has always been great to deal with, always seems to have 6.5x47 brass in stock and big surprise was another sponsor of our shoot!
I think that is where I am headed for my short range caliber. I've been trying to get Winchester 243 brass and 6.5 Creedmore brass, it's really hit-and-miss. And I don't foresee Winchester 243 brass being available for a while. But, every time I look for brass, I find 6.5x47L...
The only thing I don't like about it is the small primer. But, I suspect it isn't an issue in anything but sub-zero weather. 6XC is the nicest case design, but I'm not going to do another caliber I have to fire-form. The most I'm willing to do on my next caliber is size down a neck.
The only thing I don't like about it is the small primer. But, I suspect it isn't an issue in anything but sub-zero weather. 6XC is the nicest case design, but I'm not going to do another caliber I have to fire-form. The most I'm willing to do on my next caliber is size down a neck.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Remember that for me, the brass prep steps are almost exactly the same. When you look at the steps you will need to prep 6.5X47L to 6X47L, the neck work is identical.. Remember that Lapua brass is very thick, neck turning before and after necking down is a very very good idea. Inspection for donuts would also be a good idea.
And I always fireform my brass before any accuracy work ..... if you want the best brass possible. I just get that taken care of when I blow out the 22-250 case using cornmeal and pistol powder. You would do it with a bullet.
If the concern is loosing brass at a match, consider what it costs to replace Lapua brass vs 22-250 brass which needs 1 extra step in prep.
And you end with a case that has plenty of case volume to do whatever floats your boat.....
Pros and cons... I am very happy I went with the 6XC. If you want a plug and play, 6XC by Norma IS possible.
k, you can pretty much give up on waiting for Winchester brass unless the factory ammo market stops. I have had stuff on backorder going on 3yrs and just gave up. I am now using PRVI whenever it is available and super happy with the results. Tough, strong, heavy and very well made. Needs basic neck prep like any other brand except Norma.
Jerry
No one is turning their necks in PRS. 6x47L had the highest average finish in the PRS finale, and no one turned their necks. They did nothing more than size the neck down.
How much is Norma 6XC brass? If it is comparable to Lapua 6.5x47L brass, then I may go that route. Anything coming directly from Europe seems to be available. We get hosed if it's coming out of the US every time a Democrate gets elected president for one reason or another...
How thick is the PRVI in the shoulder area? Will you have the same problems trying to convert 243 to 6 SLR that you get with Lapua brass?
How much is Norma 6XC brass? If it is comparable to Lapua 6.5x47L brass, then I may go that route. Anything coming directly from Europe seems to be available. We get hosed if it's coming out of the US every time a Democrate gets elected president for one reason or another...
How thick is the PRVI in the shoulder area? Will you have the same problems trying to convert 243 to 6 SLR that you get with Lapua brass?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Norma 6XC is not for the weak wallet 
We can chat by PM or email as I am not allowed to quote stuff on open forum.
I have not done alot of wildcatting with the PRVI brass. Obviously, I pushed back the shoulder on the 22-250 and that was no problem. Fireformed just fine and didn't have any donuts. Now you could just shoot it as is... The necks would not be overly thick as you are sizing UP. My 6XC chamber is a bit tight so I have to clean up the necks but you could spec a reamer to fit the brass as is. LIkely more concentric then the sized down Lapua brass.
You do not need a bullet to fireform and you can bang off a whole lot of cases in short order given how little heat each produces. I usually pop off 15 to 20rds before swabbing the chamber and bore.... that is about the same as firing 3 full load cases powder wise. Not alot of powder cost nor bore wear AND the cases are formed to the chamber which is a very good thing for accuracy.
If you want/need to turn, just invest in the right tooling and it is a simple process. Plus the cases look AWESOME...
If no one wants to do alot of prep work because they will likely loose their brass, what would you rather throw away - $1.20 or 65cents? And if you are loosing your brass, you have to replace and form as needed so there is prep work regardless.
If a PRS match eats up say 200cases, that is alot of extra money that can be saved with a little bit of labour. There is a cost... time or money or a bit of both. If you practise, you form brass.
No matter how I look at PRS, affordable, readily available and plentiful components become very important. Stuff gets consumed. Why the 243 is not more popular is a surprise really...
The demand for PRVI 243 and 22-250 brass is huge and I rarely see any inventory stick around for a few weeks. A whole lot of somebodies are eating this stuff up....
Jerry
PS, if you really wanted to be sneaky, just make a 6XC Long... I know it has already been done but can't remember the wildcat name. Now all you have to do is form in the chamber without pushing back the shoulder. Just 'pop" and out comes a case ready for match loading. How's that for no brainer simple?
We can chat by PM or email as I am not allowed to quote stuff on open forum.
I have not done alot of wildcatting with the PRVI brass. Obviously, I pushed back the shoulder on the 22-250 and that was no problem. Fireformed just fine and didn't have any donuts. Now you could just shoot it as is... The necks would not be overly thick as you are sizing UP. My 6XC chamber is a bit tight so I have to clean up the necks but you could spec a reamer to fit the brass as is. LIkely more concentric then the sized down Lapua brass.
You do not need a bullet to fireform and you can bang off a whole lot of cases in short order given how little heat each produces. I usually pop off 15 to 20rds before swabbing the chamber and bore.... that is about the same as firing 3 full load cases powder wise. Not alot of powder cost nor bore wear AND the cases are formed to the chamber which is a very good thing for accuracy.
If you want/need to turn, just invest in the right tooling and it is a simple process. Plus the cases look AWESOME...
If no one wants to do alot of prep work because they will likely loose their brass, what would you rather throw away - $1.20 or 65cents? And if you are loosing your brass, you have to replace and form as needed so there is prep work regardless.
If a PRS match eats up say 200cases, that is alot of extra money that can be saved with a little bit of labour. There is a cost... time or money or a bit of both. If you practise, you form brass.
No matter how I look at PRS, affordable, readily available and plentiful components become very important. Stuff gets consumed. Why the 243 is not more popular is a surprise really...
The demand for PRVI 243 and 22-250 brass is huge and I rarely see any inventory stick around for a few weeks. A whole lot of somebodies are eating this stuff up....
Jerry
PS, if you really wanted to be sneaky, just make a 6XC Long... I know it has already been done but can't remember the wildcat name. Now all you have to do is form in the chamber without pushing back the shoulder. Just 'pop" and out comes a case ready for match loading. How's that for no brainer simple?
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The cost of the Lapua 6.5x47L brass doesn't phase me. I wouldn't want to go any more expensive than that though. As far as things like fire-forming and neck turning go... I just don't have the time anymore. I load my 223 practice ammo on a Dillon. Works fine within 500 yards (the maximum distance I practice at with the 223). For match ammo, if I need to replace lost cases, I need something that requires nothing more than resizing a neck and loading.
btw, fireforming during practice wouldn't work since I lose as much brass practicing as I do in a match (reason for using 223). Practice looks like a match. My barricades are either natural or mobile and the grass around them is knee high. The brass goes where it goes as it would in a match. Not going to try and catch it. If you try and catch it in practice, guess what you're going to do in a match?
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I really like the set up to practise from. Nice to have some land to play on. Obviously, there is now tons of open terrain around me - minus a whole lot of trees so field practise wouldn't be that hard to set up.
Yikes, loose brass in practise, loose brass at matches. Ever consider shooting a rifle using SKS ammo?
My practise rifle will be a 22LR. I think in the early days, the whole shoot from different positions with transitions is going to be a huge learning curve. I will be able to adequately miss out to 250yds quite nicely me thinks.
Think about laying down some tarps near the shooting positions? That would solve the brass recovery problem in a heart beat.
So why isn't the 243 more popular?
Anyways, if you need large quantities of superb strong and relatively inexpensive brass, consider a wildcat based off a WWII chambering. How about a 6mm-6.5X50 Japanese?
Neck down and away you go.... don't have to worry much about case life as it will be lost in a few firings. Pretty darn close to a Creedmoor.
Just putting it out there.
Jerry
Yikes, loose brass in practise, loose brass at matches. Ever consider shooting a rifle using SKS ammo?
My practise rifle will be a 22LR. I think in the early days, the whole shoot from different positions with transitions is going to be a huge learning curve. I will be able to adequately miss out to 250yds quite nicely me thinks.
Think about laying down some tarps near the shooting positions? That would solve the brass recovery problem in a heart beat.
So why isn't the 243 more popular?
Anyways, if you need large quantities of superb strong and relatively inexpensive brass, consider a wildcat based off a WWII chambering. How about a 6mm-6.5X50 Japanese?
Neck down and away you go.... don't have to worry much about case life as it will be lost in a few firings. Pretty darn close to a Creedmoor.
Just putting it out there.
Jerry
I also use a 22LR. But, since it's reach is relatively limited for range, you can't just plop targets and barricades wherever and try different courses of fire from different positions. I use the .22LR more for practicing fundamentals. The 223 allows a more realistic match simulation. With 68/69 gr. bullets the elevations, and leads on movers are nearly identical to the 105 hybrid at ~3050-3100 fps. I have garbage cans full of 223 brass, so losing it isn't painful. It's easy to come by, you can pick up tons when the police use the range, at matches or buy 1F brass for a pittance.
I'm usually moving between the various shooting positions, like 6-12 of them. Using tarps would be limiting. It would be fine for just practicing the fundamentals. But, the idea of full match situation is to work out the bugs with equipment and techniques. You want to try tackling different scenarios that you haven't seen or practiced as you would in a match. Practical shooting matches are about problem solving under time pressure, so you need to practice that. You also want to see if your equipment setup is good. So, you want to practice carrying your gear and using it the way you would in a match, under time constraints. These don't lend themselves well to carrying around tarps and deploying them.
243 used to be more popular. I think there are a lot of reasons why it's lost it's popularity. It doesn't give you any better performance than the smaller 6's, but uses more powder, has more recoil and burns out barrels faster. It has a very short neck, so you can't chase the lands for as long if you need to.and the short neck also limits you on bullet selection. If your chamber is throated long, a bullet that requires a shorter throat isn't going to work for very long before you run out of neck.
I'm usually moving between the various shooting positions, like 6-12 of them. Using tarps would be limiting. It would be fine for just practicing the fundamentals. But, the idea of full match situation is to work out the bugs with equipment and techniques. You want to try tackling different scenarios that you haven't seen or practiced as you would in a match. Practical shooting matches are about problem solving under time pressure, so you need to practice that. You also want to see if your equipment setup is good. So, you want to practice carrying your gear and using it the way you would in a match, under time constraints. These don't lend themselves well to carrying around tarps and deploying them.
243 used to be more popular. I think there are a lot of reasons why it's lost it's popularity. It doesn't give you any better performance than the smaller 6's, but uses more powder, has more recoil and burns out barrels faster. It has a very short neck, so you can't chase the lands for as long if you need to.and the short neck also limits you on bullet selection. If your chamber is throated long, a bullet that requires a shorter throat isn't going to work for very long before you run out of neck.
I finally got out today and fire formed 50 pieces of brass. This gun is showing potential. I was shooting off a Caldwell front bag and a small bean bag in the rear so not the best setup. Scope was a super sniper 10x. I was really struggling with the trigger as it seemed to have quit a bit of creep and was gritty, I think I will swap in one of my timney a or rifle basix before my next range trip.
I was running 105 amaxes over h4350 should have been somewhere in the 3100fps
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I was running 105 amaxes over h4350 should have been somewhere in the 3100fps
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If interested, drop me a line Jerry, we have 3 sizes of cordura bags and can make custom ones. We also make barricade rests for Tactical rifle shooting.
Just remember that if you are considering forming your 6mm brass from 6.5x47 Lapua small primer brass don't just jump in with both feet. Do some testing with large primer brass too (even if formed from 22-250 cases) and run both over the chronograph. My results were very clear on this point that 38 grains of powder does not ignite well with a small primer. My 6x47 lapua was garbage until I started using 6xc brass with large primers, then it was straight up bug holes.
If you test small primers on an 80 degree day they might work ok, so the performance gap between large and small primers might be less evident, but compare both on a cold day and over several cold days and the difference will be clear.
If you test small primers on an 80 degree day they might work ok, so the performance gap between large and small primers might be less evident, but compare both on a cold day and over several cold days and the difference will be clear.
Yes I did. After 200 rounds of unacceptable load development testing (using 115s) I finally discussed it at length with David Tubbs and he spoke with Obermyer about it.
The consensus was unanimous - You will not get consistent ignition when lighting 38+ grains of relatively slow burning powder for heavy bullets with small primers. You might get away with it on a warm day but from day to day your velocity will vary significantly.
Its a bad idea and a marketing stunt that draws people in thinking its a better mouse trap. Small primers may work well in certain specific situations - maybe light bullets and fast burning powder (like 100 yard bench rest) - but for heavy (long range) bullets and slow powder its just not even close to an improvement over large primers.
In my testing the CCI 450 magnum primers produced the best results - amoung small primers - but was not as good as larger Federal Gold Medal Match.
The consensus was unanimous - You will not get consistent ignition when lighting 38+ grains of relatively slow burning powder for heavy bullets with small primers. You might get away with it on a warm day but from day to day your velocity will vary significantly.
Its a bad idea and a marketing stunt that draws people in thinking its a better mouse trap. Small primers may work well in certain specific situations - maybe light bullets and fast burning powder (like 100 yard bench rest) - but for heavy (long range) bullets and slow powder its just not even close to an improvement over large primers.
In my testing the CCI 450 magnum primers produced the best results - amoung small primers - but was not as good as larger Federal Gold Medal Match.
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