90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357
- Thread starter Mystic Precision
- Start date
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Got some good news for you. I assume you will end up with a case volume the same as a 22/250.
I built a 22/250 in a 7 twist McGowen just to see if I could blow up these bullets (light target jackets and all). 28" barrel H4831SC (near compressed load) was the fuel and happily launched them to 3250fps average without lossing a single bullet.
They even shot in the high 2's low 3's at 200yds - furthest I got to test them before the barrel was scooped up by another shooter.
I was expecting to see puffs of grey but all bullets made the trip and never lost a single one.
It will be an amazing lazer beam with ballistics rivalling the larger 7mm/180gr VLD combo, with zippo for recoil, BUT I expect bore life to be brief.
will be alot of fun.
Enjoy...
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Well, back to our regular progamming.
I installed my new Shilen Select match 7 twist BULL 28" barrel on a LA I had used for F open and thru it into a lam stock I had - similar pics are on my site in the "how to prefits shoot" article except the scope is now a Sightron SIII 10-50.
Tried testing with the orig 223 throat which pushed the bullet well into the case. Results really sucked - you loose alot of powder room so you don't go very fast. BUT it is an option for mag fed rifles (although I would go with other bullets).
Pushed the throat out 1/2 way to ideal and it improved alot. yesterday shooting in very cold strong winds at 100yds, there were nodes that had 3 bullets touching (testing with 3rds per powder level). No flags and nicely numb, I was happy with the results.
Having proven the point to myself that these bullets can work seated below the neck, I pushed the throat out to the desired length. This puts the start of the boat tail slightly below the neck. Now all the case capacity is available and the base of the bullet is better protected.
Hoping for warmer weather without the gale and will do some testing at 200yds.
Varget is my baseline powder and will move onto others when I have a load established.
to answer the many questions -
90gr Berger VLD
CCI450 primer
Win cases fully prepped
Lee collet neck sizer
Redding body die
Forster BR seater
Jennings MACK20 scale
Loaded ammo is running 2thou or less runout.
Bullet is ever so lightly touching the lands - jiffy marker on bullet is just rubbed off leaving a hint on the bullet.
Looking to reaching both accuracy AND speed.
Let you all know...
Jerry
I installed my new Shilen Select match 7 twist BULL 28" barrel on a LA I had used for F open and thru it into a lam stock I had - similar pics are on my site in the "how to prefits shoot" article except the scope is now a Sightron SIII 10-50.
Tried testing with the orig 223 throat which pushed the bullet well into the case. Results really sucked - you loose alot of powder room so you don't go very fast. BUT it is an option for mag fed rifles (although I would go with other bullets).
Pushed the throat out 1/2 way to ideal and it improved alot. yesterday shooting in very cold strong winds at 100yds, there were nodes that had 3 bullets touching (testing with 3rds per powder level). No flags and nicely numb, I was happy with the results.
Having proven the point to myself that these bullets can work seated below the neck, I pushed the throat out to the desired length. This puts the start of the boat tail slightly below the neck. Now all the case capacity is available and the base of the bullet is better protected.
Hoping for warmer weather without the gale and will do some testing at 200yds.
Varget is my baseline powder and will move onto others when I have a load established.
to answer the many questions -
90gr Berger VLD
CCI450 primer
Win cases fully prepped
Lee collet neck sizer
Redding body die
Forster BR seater
Jennings MACK20 scale
Loaded ammo is running 2thou or less runout.
Bullet is ever so lightly touching the lands - jiffy marker on bullet is just rubbed off leaving a hint on the bullet.
Looking to reaching both accuracy AND speed.
Let you all know...
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Well, got some "warmer" weather and some time to go shoot the New powder and it ROCKS!!!!
Out of my 28" 7 twist Shilen, Hornadys new Leverevolution pushes the 90gr Berger VLD at 2875fps with accuracy in the 2's and vertical in the 1's. WOO HOOO.
All targets shot at 200yds in temps from 0C to around 6C.
Conditions were light gusty winds in the left to right direction as indicated on the targets.
Top group shot 3 was wind as I saw the mirage pick up but didn't think it would move the bullet much. Waited for it to calm and dropped the 4th shot in a nice triangle with the first two.
Only shot I am unsure about is the high right on the second target marked with a ?. Thought conditions were good and the shot felt ok so not sure why it went way out there????
The lower groups were shot on another day. I have retested on 3 occasions and the groups are stable. The temps have varied quite a bit and the powder still seems pretty stable.
Lots more info to come as testing goes into the warmer weather.
Jerry
Out of my 28" 7 twist Shilen, Hornadys new Leverevolution pushes the 90gr Berger VLD at 2875fps with accuracy in the 2's and vertical in the 1's. WOO HOOO.
All targets shot at 200yds in temps from 0C to around 6C.
Conditions were light gusty winds in the left to right direction as indicated on the targets.
Top group shot 3 was wind as I saw the mirage pick up but didn't think it would move the bullet much. Waited for it to calm and dropped the 4th shot in a nice triangle with the first two.
Only shot I am unsure about is the high right on the second target marked with a ?. Thought conditions were good and the shot felt ok so not sure why it went way out there????
The lower groups were shot on another day. I have retested on 3 occasions and the groups are stable. The temps have varied quite a bit and the powder still seems pretty stable.
Lots more info to come as testing goes into the warmer weather.
Jerry
Cool, Any idea on pressures compared to Varget? Have you also tried the Superformance powder? Are they easy to get or still hard to attain since they are still pretty new?
Seems like you might be able to get 2900 out of 30" barrel, I guess I'll have to try some powder and get some results....
Seems like you might be able to get 2900 out of 30" barrel, I guess I'll have to try some powder and get some results....
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I have tried some Superformance and I think it has alot of potential but it is slower so will use alot of more powder BUT that might be a good thing depending on the quirks for your barrel. I got an interesting load but it only clocked in the 2750fps range. Got to open the throttle some more and see what happens. It filled the case nicely.
I think this powder has alot of potential in many other popular cartridges.
With Varget, I hit 2800fps and the accuracy went south soon after so I feel it was peaking out pressure wise. It did shoot very well so again, might be another option.
My big interest in these new hodgdon powders is that they are ball powders. I want to speed up my loading and ball powders in a quality powder measure is my dream set up. So far, the Redding I just got is working very well with tolerance pretty close to 0.1gr.
I am loading to 0.1gr on either side of best node to see what happens. I am hopeful that the powder will have a node that is 0.2gr wide. That would make loading with a powder measure feasible.
Higginson does have some leverolution in - I called a few weeks back so this stuff is now in Canada.
My SWAG puts the burn rate between Varget and H4350 which is pretty much what we need for this set up ie N550.
Issues that still need to be figured out - temp stability and fouling. I think fouling will be ok and I have seen little change in the days I have shot which cover a decent temp range.
all very promising stuff.
Now to wait for things to thaw and temps to get into the teens to start further testing.
Eventually, it will be leave it in the summer sun and see what happens.
Jerry
PS I don't think you will gain alot of speed in extra long barrels with a 223. You just aren't burning that much powder. 2900fps is a possibility which is pretty darn fast for the case size.
I think this powder has alot of potential in many other popular cartridges.
With Varget, I hit 2800fps and the accuracy went south soon after so I feel it was peaking out pressure wise. It did shoot very well so again, might be another option.
My big interest in these new hodgdon powders is that they are ball powders. I want to speed up my loading and ball powders in a quality powder measure is my dream set up. So far, the Redding I just got is working very well with tolerance pretty close to 0.1gr.
I am loading to 0.1gr on either side of best node to see what happens. I am hopeful that the powder will have a node that is 0.2gr wide. That would make loading with a powder measure feasible.
Higginson does have some leverolution in - I called a few weeks back so this stuff is now in Canada.
My SWAG puts the burn rate between Varget and H4350 which is pretty much what we need for this set up ie N550.
Issues that still need to be figured out - temp stability and fouling. I think fouling will be ok and I have seen little change in the days I have shot which cover a decent temp range.
all very promising stuff.
Now to wait for things to thaw and temps to get into the teens to start further testing.
Eventually, it will be leave it in the summer sun and see what happens.
Jerry
PS I don't think you will gain alot of speed in extra long barrels with a 223. You just aren't burning that much powder. 2900fps is a possibility which is pretty darn fast for the case size.
223ai
Rman I am sure you are right, I have seen the regular 223 put the 90grs at 3000fps if fellows chrono was right, but was way to hot after looking at his brass.
The only bad thing about the 223AI it puts you into F/Open class
manitou
Rman I am sure you are right, I have seen the regular 223 put the 90grs at 3000fps if fellows chrono was right, but was way to hot after looking at his brass.
The only bad thing about the 223AI it puts you into F/Open class
manitou
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Given the OAL and how much case capacity is left, I am going to say NO to 3000fps from the AI version.
I am running my loads toasty and I can still put in another 4grs of Leverevolution so there is no shortage of case capacity. I don't think you will get much more speed out of this combination AND still be accurate.
SAAMI should put the 90 gr set up in the 2600/2700fps range so at just shy of 2900fps, I am already in magnum/improved pressure territory.
Jerry
I am running my loads toasty and I can still put in another 4grs of Leverevolution so there is no shortage of case capacity. I don't think you will get much more speed out of this combination AND still be accurate.
SAAMI should put the 90 gr set up in the 2600/2700fps range so at just shy of 2900fps, I am already in magnum/improved pressure territory.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Probably not. The difference in case volume between the 223 and improved version is not that much and this powder is no where near 100% load density.
so the extra case of the improved might need another 1/2gr to reach THE SAME RESULT.
The difference in net speed will be more dependent on the likes of a barrel then the shape of the cartridge.
Now if you were using a powder where you simply couldn't put enough into the case to max out pressures, then the larger case volume can help.
With Leverolution and the 223 case and the long throat, no problem blowing primers if you really want to go there.
Jerry
so the extra case of the improved might need another 1/2gr to reach THE SAME RESULT.
The difference in net speed will be more dependent on the likes of a barrel then the shape of the cartridge.
Now if you were using a powder where you simply couldn't put enough into the case to max out pressures, then the larger case volume can help.
With Leverolution and the 223 case and the long throat, no problem blowing primers if you really want to go there.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Nice rig Ron.
Jerry
Jerry
- Location
- Halifax, NS
Hey Jerry In addition to precision 223 loading I'm also going to be buying an AR and a 9mm and am very interested in getting into a high volume set-up with a progressive (loadmaster) press.
My question is if you think the Leverloution stuff is going to replace H-335 for AR plinking loads? Don't suppose that it would make a good 9mm powder too would you?
My question is if you think the Leverloution stuff is going to replace H-335 for AR plinking loads? Don't suppose that it would make a good 9mm powder too would you?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Unless you can reduce the gas pressure to your moving bits, I wouldn't recommend Leverolution in an AR.
I have been using WCC735 which is like Benchmark behind 62gr ARMSCORS and it is working superbly. TAC is another that I am curious about. Gas guns usually don't like slow powder - too much gas volume for too long a duration.
For the 9mm, the simple solution is Hodgdon Titegroup.
Jerry
I have been using WCC735 which is like Benchmark behind 62gr ARMSCORS and it is working superbly. TAC is another that I am curious about. Gas guns usually don't like slow powder - too much gas volume for too long a duration.
For the 9mm, the simple solution is Hodgdon Titegroup.
Jerry
