90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357

Jerry are your verticals due to shot-to-shot velocity variations (it shows up on the chrono, it shows up at long range, it does not show up at short range), or is it due to the shots "flinging" (shows up at both short and long range, approx the same (MOA-wise) amount, no effect visible on chrono), or is it something else?
 
mmilne said:
90VLD-N550-23dot4.jpg
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September has only 30 days.



Just bugging you ;)
Nice shooting!
 
rnbra-shooter said:
Jerry are your verticals due to shot-to-shot velocity variations (it shows up on the chrono, it shows up at long range, it does not show up at short range), or is it due to the shots "flinging" (shows up at both short and long range, approx the same (MOA-wise) amount, no effect visible on chrono), or is it something else?
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Given the error inherent in most chronies, I don't bother trying to shoot and collect data. I just use a chronie to give me an idea if I am about to test my life insurance policy.

I shoot my groups at 200yds and 300m. The vertical vs horizontal stringing is visible at both distances. More pronounced the further you go of course but then conditions, like mirage, can play a larger role at 300m.

I shoot multiple groups and look at the composite group and size. I have always found that it was very obvious when groups were clocking from horizontal to vertical. The vertical groups are also much larger then the loads in tune.

Start by getting an accurate scale then you can follow the steps printed here.

http://www.mysticprecision.com/htm/rifle.php

Click on the load tuning to maximize LR accuracy.

I am pretty sure this is why many 223 shooters are having such a hard time tuning at LR. If their scale is varying up to 0.3gr between cases, you are WAAAAYYYY off your sweet spot and are going to toss rds all over the place.

Give it a try...

Jerry

Cyan1de, when you can get those type of conditions in a match, I will be happy to come on up. Now that would be some impressive match organization :)
 
I was thinking of a 220 Swift Improved (40 degree), 30" barrel, 1:8 twist last spring. For this exact thing. Haven't found anyone who has done it, but running numbers on quickload is interesting.
 
I should have posted a reply to this thread and not started my own on .222 Rem Mag. I'm still trying to find info on wildcats based on the .222 Rem Mag but keeping the .224 cal. I found a link to this page http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=LWkYnuxKGu&catid=539 It looks pretty good for an 80 gr out of a 16.75" barrel. Another site had some one necking up a .204 to .224 :D called it the .222 rem super mag. He pointed out to another that necking up a .204 would not make a .222 rem mag as the shoulder is farther forward.
 
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Because the 222 rem mag and 223 are so close dimensionally, trying to make any more wildcats is kind of splitting hairs.

The TC family of wildcats from the 70/80's covers pretty much all that can be done with these cases all the way to 7mm. Used a lot in HG silhoutte shooting.

If keeping a 22cal, you can improve the case which will gain you a bit more case capacity but you will likely find that throating will gain just as much.

Not alot of case capacity differences between all of these cases so velocities will be very similar.

For the 204 to 222RM conversion, a slight bump in a FL sizer and you have 222RM brass.

Jerry
 
I went out last Sunday for the first time since November.

I shot three shot groups with 90 VLD, VV N-550, Lapua Cases and CCI BR-4 Primers, charge weights incrementing by .1 gr from 25.6 to 26.1 gr. Due to chrony problems the highest charge weight I got a velocity reading for was 25.8 gr, and the three shot average was 2850 fps. Needless to say, I'm VERY happy with these speeds! I didn't get velocity readings for 25.9 - 26.1. Was only shooting to 100 Yards, and the best group was 26.0 gr.

I also shot a single round with 90 VLD, H4350, Win Cases and CCI SR primers. Charge weights were in .1 gr increments from 25.1 - 26.0 gr. The intent of this was to see where the upper limit of pressure was. The 26.0 gr charge of H4350 gave me 2715 fps at the muzzle. I got the suggestion to try H4350 via PM from another forum member.

There were no pressure signs such as sticky bolts, flat/sooty primers, etc. All seating was with 20 thou jump. If anybody has a copy of QuickLoad available I'd be very interested in seeing the calculated pressure levels for these loads!

To date I've been weighing everything with a RCBS 750 digital scale, but recently bought a Jennings Mack-20 (same as mysticplayer). I'm looking forward to loading some more up with the new scale as well as going to greater distances as soon as time and weather permits.
 
The goal would be to use the standard 223 case so that it will qualify for F TR competition. You will need a longer through though.

A 90gr Berger VLD with a G7 BC of 0.281 is higher then pretty much all 6mm VLD's readily available. Equal to a 185gr Berger VLD which is very hard to get moving in a 308. I really doubt you get get this heavy of a bullet going 2800+fps from a 308 even with very spicy loadings.

I hope to do some testing later in the month and will post my results.

Jerry
 
Certainly the goal would be to use the 223 case, just making sure since there is a lot of talk of other improved or wildcat 22 cases mentioned.
 
No idea on the 90gr MK as I will only be shooting the Bergers. I stretched the throat on my new McGowen 223 7 twist so that the bullet body/boattail junction is just below the neck/shoulder junction on the case.

NOT LOAD DATA - I can put 27gr of H4350 into the case and the bullet will seat without a compressed load.

When I had the 90gr Bergers set up for the Savage mag length, I used 23.5gr of Varget and it was pretty much full.

Jerry
 
44rds down the McGowen barrel and some repeated test groups so I will say,

1) This bullet is very easy to set up
2) The McGowen barrel SHOOTS

***THIS LOAD DATA WILL NOT WORK IN A STANDARD 223 CHAMBER***

Found a low node at 25.2gr of H4350, CCI 450, Win brass and these 90gr Berger VLD. Shows the ability to group into 1/2" at 200yds.

Worked up to the next higher node and have found 26.4gr and 26.6gr as very promising loads. Both at 1/2" 3 rds but the 26.4gr was a bit tighter. I will retest now in larger number of shots to confirm but I don't expect any surprises.

26.8gr showed some flattening of the primer so I am right on the pressure levels I like.
Odds are I will settle on 26.3/5gr at this ambient temp.

Was a bit cool testing today so will likely have to drop the loads a few tenths as we get into the summer.

H4350 has been completely docile and predictable in the work up. A very nice powder to use with this combo. At my present throat length, I am not even compressed. However, you can't hear any powder moving so I am at 100% load density. Perfect

Will chrony asap. I am really hoping to get over 2800fps

So far, I have not had to play around with seating depths at all. The bullet is just off the lands and doesn't seem to be fussy at all.

Look forward to getting a larger sample size of test groups at the prefered loads.

If it will retain the 1/4 min accuracy at 200yds, that is plenty accurate enough for any F class match.

Look out 308's

Jerry
 
Very cool. What is your COL? I may have read it wrong, but in F-rest, isn't the chamber supposed to be in SAAMI specs? Would a longer throat be allowed if that was the case?

These bullets seem to be very promising...
 
The chamber is SAAMI. The throat is longer and similar to a Wylde or NATO. As far as I know, the rules do not dictate throat length otherwise, there will be a whole bunch of defunct 308's in service.

The rule is to ensure the case volume is controlled.

Think of a long throat as a well worn barrel....

Jerry
 
My bad, I looked at it in the wrong perspective I guess. Most things are still called "that thing" or the thingamagig... Man I can't wait to get out shooting again, this is going to be a busy shooting season.

Do you think 2800fps is attainable in .223? I know this has been debated for years but would a double base powder like Re17 or N550 be better? If it could be done with a low ES is the biggest part I guess?
 
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