90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357

Yes, I have a load that seems to be robust over a decent temp range. Works in both Shilens which is surprising but a pleasant coincidence.

Using IMR4007SSC for around 2800fps. win brass, CCI450 primers.

With winds in Raton around 20 to 30kph and HOT. Will be a brutal test for this set up.

Also, shot some Breger 90gr BT's and these shot well too.

Jerry
 
Would you consider it worthwhile to throat for the 90's or just not lengthen the throat and go with the 80/82's?
I am on the fence. I am also curious as to whether or not the 80/82 grainers will shoot as well out of a barrel set up for the 90's... Any ideas?
 
OAL is 2.62" ish

If you choose Varget, you don't need to throat out as far. This would be a good dual set up for 80's to 90's.

Ironically, the Berger 90gr BT need a much longer throat then the VLD's (JLK and Berger) for max case volume

You shouldn't have a problem finding a throat length compromise for the 80/90s

Jerry
 
Well, I am loaded up for Raton. Just need to do final packing and be off Sept 15. was looking at JBM to do some guesstimating on wind drift. Very impressive the changes elevation will have on your windage.

If this chart is a good mimic to the real world, the "high" winds will not have as big an effect as I originally thought. Initially, I think low altitude shooters will be overcompensating when viewing and feeling the winds.

300rds should give me a good idea how to steer :)

Nice to hear more ON shooters doing well with the 223. Recent match had 1 308 in the top 10 shooters. That is a massive change from Western line ups where 308 still dominate.

Will see how the mouse rifles fair in New Mexico.

Jerry
 
rnbra-shooter said:
Hi firstly it was the America Match (The America's Cup is for sailboats not rifles... ;-)

Not only were there three teams but the Canadian team shot well - http://dcra.ca/results/2010/CFRC/a751.htm

manitou210 I am curious what your 900m elevation spread is like now that you have a season shooting the 90s. Are you able to keep fifteen out of fifteen shots within the height of the 12" 5-ring? Or a bit better? And, out of fifteen fired shots, how many would lie within the 6" elevation of the V-bull?
Click to expand...

RNBRA
Practicing at Connaught in July I was able to keep 12 of 15 shots in Vbull the othere 3 where bulls at 900m verticale is not a factor but I got toasted at the Nationals in strong winds at 900m verticale again was not a problem, but I pay attention when loading using a electronic scale Not a chargemaster they are not good for loading a 223 for 900m
 
do not sell these scales. google the scale and there are a variety of vendors. prices are falling hard so a great time to pick up a very nice scale.

Enjoy but just remember, fussy to set up and keep zero'ed. but once you figure its quirks, works well.

Jerry
 
Thanks Jerry. I read a few reviews and am going to go with the 500 model only $11 more than the 250. Thanks again, just need to get 1 other thing first.
 
MRFixIT said:
Thanks Jerry. I read a few reviews and am going to go with the 500 model only $11 more than the 250. Thanks again, just need to get 1 other thing first.
Click to expand...

The 250 weighs to 0.02 grains.
The 500s accuracy is to 0.05 grains.

I would guess that is why Jerry recommended the 250. The 250s capacity of just short of 800 grains is as much as you will need for reloading.

I know nothing about these scales but I know I don't like the Jennings mack 20. My next scale will likely be a Sartorius.
 
MRFixIT said:
Thanks Jerry. I read a few reviews and am going to go with the 500 model only $11 more than the 250. Thanks again, just need to get 1 other thing first.
Click to expand...

warrenb got the specs correct and why I use the Gempro250.

All scales have some measuring error. I wanted the smallest I could get so that even WITH the error, I was still loading to the levels I wanted.

Assuming my scale is working properly, with the error, my loads are still within 0.06gr of each other. Seems to be working.

If you are loading for the 223 or any small case, the best scale has a range as close to the loads you want to use.

The small case perfect scale would only have a range of 50gr so that the resolution will be greatly increased.

Not likely to ever happen unless you want to buy lab scales at a couple of thousand a pop.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Well, I am loaded up for Raton. Just need to do final packing and be off Sept 15. was looking at JBM to do some guesstimating on wind drift. Very impressive the changes elevation will have on your windage.

If this chart is a good mimic to the real world, the "high" winds will not have as big an effect as I originally thought. Initially, I think low altitude shooters will be overcompensating when viewing and feeling the winds.
Click to expand...

Jerry I hope you have a wonderful time in Raton; it's one of several "gotta shoot before I die" ranges in the world. A few comments, in case any of them are useful to you:

- I found that the mirage in Raton was quite difficult to see, in fact I couldn't see it at all for the first day or two. Dunno if it's the lower air density (6600' ASL) or the (much!) lower humidity than at the ranges I am used to shooting at, but it was extremely subtle to see. Once you know what to look for though, it is there and it is pretty readable.

- I found Raton to be a relatively "strong" range, conditions-wise. It's more likely you'll make a mistake under-reacting rather than over-reacting. If you see something, in the flags or in the mirage, put it on your sights and shoot... don't be shy about it, make a "full" or a "bold" correction, rather than a "partial" or "cautious" correction. If you see things change, put it on and go for it. Be bold.

- I don't know if anyone is much good at making _absolute_ wind calls. You look at the indicators, make your best guess, and fire your first sighter. Even with the very best and most experienced shooters I know, it is not at all surprising to be out by a considerable amount. But within one or two sighters, if you've made a big "scale" error in reading the conditions, you can usually "re-calibrate" yourself to the conditions of the day and be pretty good from there on in reading and adjusting for wind changes in a relative sense.


manitou210 said:
RNBRA
Practicing at Connaught in July I was able to keep 12 of 15 shots in Vbull the othere 3 where bulls at 900m verticale is not a factor but I got toasted at the Nationals in strong winds at 900m verticale again was not a problem, but I pay attention when loading using a electronic scale Not a chargemaster they are not good for loading a 223 for 900m
Click to expand...

That's really great. It is nice to see the 90 grain 223 bullets working out as a serious competitive option. Sooner or later I'd sure like to build a .223 target rifle, hmmm....... and if/when I do, I will be quite grateful for the trailblazing the work that you, Jerry and others will have done for me...
 
Daniel, thanks so much for your tips. It will certainly be used.

My first experience F match at 1000yds was in Nokomis SK this July. Wow, post tornado - that is BIG FULL VALUE WIND.

Loved it when Keith yelled out to double whatever windage we thought we needed. He wasn't far off.

From the shooting I have done with the 90/223, it is a very sensitive set up to changes in air. That can either be a good or bad thing if you can adapt quickly to what it is telling you. It is rare where I can just hold on 1 ring and let it find its mark over a range of wind speeds. I have to move around alot but I am sure most 308 shooters do a similar thing.

Got spoilt in F open.

Each range I shoot, things come together by the end of the match. I am hoping to get ahead of that learning curve faster and score better early on.

I guess in 2 weeks we will know the answer.

Appreciate your thoughts...

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
OAL is 2.62" ish

If you choose Varget, you don't need to throat out as far. This would be a good dual set up for 80's to 90's.

Ironically, the Berger 90gr BT need a much longer throat then the VLD's (JLK and Berger) for max case volume

You shouldn't have a problem finding a throat length compromise for the 80/90s

Jerry
Click to expand...

Have you tried the 80gr amax out of these same barrels?
 
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