9mm 1911, what's the advantage over a 45 ?

[prproulx]

"If a 9mm will penetrate a kevlar helmet while a 7.62x39 will not"

Hey I read that years ago when the US military was going to the Beretta. I don't know if it's true or not, and I don't know much about rifles but is this true?
7.62x39 won't go through a Kevlar helmet? Wow. I bet you would have one hell of a head ache though.

 

[FN]

There are better handguns to shoot 9mm from then the 1911 plateform. You should take a look at Glock, CZ and Sig for good 9mm's.

 

[mittycat99]

I'm a bulls eye shooter and love my Springfield black stainless. Nice .45 with great slide to frame fit and lots of goodies such as titanium firing pin, grip safety as with most .45's, night sites bla bla bla. Have shot over 2000 rounds through with not one failure. This past week I put another 100 through it and was thinking wouldn't it be nice to have the same gun but in the smaller 9mil. Aside from having all the yummy features the extra heft would diminish the felt recoil compared to my two HP's. As someone mentioned earlier the 9mil would shoot flatter compared to the golf balls that I put down range with the .45 Also would notice the heft in my pocket book might I add as I don't reload. So yeah, I can see why someone would want it in 9mil, especially if you already have a .45 to try out some comparisons.

 

[nognog]

How much cheaper mrharley ?

I am not mrharley, but just want to put in my 2-cents because I just happen to recently did my calculation on these rounds.

Here's my cost per round and BTW, the price of the brass per round is included in the reload estimate:
> Factory 45ACP = $0.49 a pop compare to a reloaded 45ACP = $0.22 per ammo
> Factory 9mm = $0.30 a pop compared to a reloaded 9mm = $0.16 per ammo

 

[Hitzy]

The point is that until you have found the perfect load you can not get the best out of your gun. If you can not be bothered about getting the perfect load they you can't be bothered about getting the best out of your gun. If you can not be bothered about getting the best out of your gun you can not be serious about shooting.

9mm may be cheaper to reload but the difference is peanuts, especially so if you cast your own.



The only person that has mentioned "mucho"is you.

I think you are missing the point completely, the thread is about the benefit of 9mm 1911's over .45 1911's.

Pistol loading is usually about volume, not tweeking to get supreme accuracy. Loading on a single stage weighing every charge would be retarded.
Unless mabey you are talking bullseye shooting, in which case 9mm would be preffered over .45 in any platform.

 

[Spencer]

I am not mrharley, but just want to put in my 2-cents because I just happen to recently did my calculation on these rounds.

Here's my cost per round and BTW, the price of the brass per round is included in the reload estimate:
> Factory 45ACP = $0.49 a pop compare to a reloaded 45ACP = $0.22 per ammo
> Factory 9mm = $0.30 a pop compared to a reloaded 9mm = $0.16 per ammo

Thanks for the calculations nognog. You have prompted me into doing some of my own.

I now use Unique powder for my .45 loads, but I have used Bullsey for both 9mm and .45 so I shall use this powder for my calculations so as to make things simpler.

Cost of bullets ... for 9mm and .45, Nothing I cast my own.

Cost of cases.. for 9mm and .45, Nothing I get them from the floor sweepings at the range

Cost of primers for 9mm $29 per 1000

Cost of primers for .45 $29

Cost of Bullseye 1lb $28

Best 9mm bullseye load 4.3 grns 1lb = 1627 loads

Best .45mm bullseye load 4.1 grns 1lb = 1707 loads.

For the sake of simplicity I will say that the powder cost is identical.

The cost of both 9mm and .45 is $86 per 1000 rnds or 0.086 per round.

Ther is no difference in the price for reloaders, it's peanuts for either caliber.

 

[Spencer]

Miscalculation $57 per 1000 0.057 per round, and enough powder left for 627 9mm loads or 707 .45 loads. I think. I've had enough, I'm going to bed.

 

[IM_Lugger]

Ther is no difference in the price for reloaders, it's peanuts for either caliber.

Not all (or that many) relaoders cast their own bullets, I buy copper plated (not worth the health risk IMO or have time to cast lead bullets) so there is quite a bit if difference between 9mm and .45 bullets for me and most shooters. That's why I want a 10mm over .45 for my next gun - ten uses .40 bullets, so it's cheaper to reload.

BTW if you cast your own wouldn't you be able to cast twice as much 9mm bullets from the same amount of lead?

 

[Spencer]

BTW if you cast your own wouldn't you be able to cast twice as much 9mm bullets from the same amount of lead?

Of course. But as lead wheel weights cost nothing it is hardly a consideration.

Everyone should cast their own bullets and load their own cases wherever possible. It's good to be independent, it's good to have cheap ammo, and it's good to have perfect ammo for every application.

 

[Hitzy]

Of course. But as lead wheel weights cost nothing it is hardly a consideration.

Everyone should cast their own bullets and load their own cases wherever possible. It's good to be independent, it's good to have cheap ammo, and it's good to have perfect ammo for every application.

Again, pistol loading for most people is about volume....casting your own bullets for 20,000 rounds a year generally isn't very appealing to most people.
With a good progessive press, you can turn out 500-800 rounds an hour, makes no sense to cast for that sort of volume.
Lots of folks on here cast rifle bullets though......

 

[Hungry]

I have 2 Sproingfields one in 9mm and one in .45 , both are of the Milspec genre. I love them both. I compete with the 9mm and so does my wife. When we are both on the same relay, I'll compete with the .45 platform. All the controls are identical.

I like shooting the 9mm since it's a lot cheaper for me to buy factory for my wife. She prefers the 'confidence' factor with factory Winchester White Box. Me ? I'm fast with clearing anything that may stop the smooth feeding process (slight case mouth dings that missed my inspection, etc).

The beauty of shooting the 9mm inside a platform that has so much steel made to accommodate that fatter .45 is that all the extra steel surrounding the smaller 9mm ctg helps to reduce the recoil (my wife loves that). Me ? I don't care about that. All I know is that if I run out of reloads, I can buy 9mm cheaply at Ellwood Epps when I need to.

Yeah, I've owned and competed with Browning HP, SIG P226R, and my Glock17 and I'm always going back to the 1911 trigger. No other platform can beat that smooth 2 stage trigger.

My wife and I are now setup with all kinds of 1911 holsters and therefore with only 1 platform to worry about we can tweak our games anyway we need to (Service matches to TacPistol matches to bear protection at Milcun 600m Butts).

I bought a Ciener .22LR kit from TSE and Redleg and now I can train all year round with this kit. Saves me from reloading both cartridges and picking up brass during the winter months/snow. My .45 1911 wears that kit pretty well all year, until I need to carry the .45 for bear protection running the butts at Milcun, then the .22 slide goes back on.

Now I don't know about you guys, but shooting skills like daily physical training is a diminishing skill (among us weekend warriors.... ) and I like to keep up my trigger skills with this .22LR. I'm too old to train with the JTF2 or the SEAL Teams (remember that they train with 9mm ball ammo all day long) , so I have to train on my own (welfare training budget LOL) with the .22LR kit.

Oh yeah, and here's one more plug for the 9mm round. Remember that I'm shooting with the Reg and Res units that come to our OSA run Service (Rifle and Pistol) matches. Many of the soldiers like playing with my 1911 9mm after their Brownings experience magazine (old and dented) problems. They ask to use my pistol with their ammo. Big smiles all around . And that's our mandate: to support the military.

And that is why I'm avoiding the 9mm and .45 cal debate. Just buy BOTH of the darn platforms and get out and shoot. Quit looking at yerself in the mirror, you mirror kommandos know who I'm talking to.... yeah, you know who you are... lurking here on this board and never coming out to our matches with yer $ 2000 STI's and Kimbers and Springfield Operators!!

There, my 2 (after tax dollars) cents worth

 

[Spencer]

Again, pistol loading for most people is about volume....casting your own bullets for 20,000 rounds a year generally isn't very appealing to most people.

loading for me is about accuracy and cost, it don't make any difference wether this is loading for pistol or rifle.

There are always lazy people who will use any excuse not to do any sort of work,not that casting is unpleasant past time, they are just too lazy to find out.

With a good progessive press, you can turn out 500-800 rounds an hour, makes no sense to cast for that sort of volume.

If you are loading that sort of quantities it makes perfect sense to cast your own, the more you load the more sense it makes.

 

[prproulx]

"There are always lazy people who will use any excuse not to do any sort of work,not that casting is unpleasant past time, they are just too lazy to find out."

I can tell you're going to be a popular poster on this forum. Your sig line should read,
"If you're not like me, you STINK!"

 

[David K]

.... "Hungry" has the right idea !!! If I thought I could afford it, and if I thought I could avoid a painful death by starvation ,at my wife's hands, I'd follow his example !!! ...... David K. ...

 

[NAA]

1911's

While I believe that the 1911 platform is perhaps the best place for the .45ACP to be launched from there certainly is nothing wrong, in my view, with launching other ctgs from the same....

Here's what I can send down range from various 1911's I currently own:

.22lr, 9mm, .38 Super, 10mm and working on .40 S&W......

The point is: get out, shoot & have fun! [With whatever you own.... 1911 or otherwise... ]

 

[mittycat99]

Thanks for the info Hungry. You didn't get into the 9mil vs 45 debate and answered the question and more specifically my questions on a new 9mil Springfield. Any further thoughts on convincing the wife that this would be a good thing would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

 

[Hitzy]

"There are always lazy people who will use any excuse not to do any sort of work,not that casting is unpleasant past time, they are just too lazy to find out."

I can tell you're going to be a popular poster on this forum. Your sig line should read,
"If you're not like me, you STINK!"

X2......

 

[Max Power]

I also don't see how .45 is somehow more mucho than 9mm... just because the bullet is bigger? So what 9mm is WAY faster...I don't feel that much difference between 9mm .40 and .45 when shooting; to me it depends more on a load itself... I also have (and reload for) a .44mag that has have more power and recoil than 9mm and .45 combined so to me there's nothing manly about .45acp....

WTF does 'mucho' mean? I can't figure out what you are talking about from the context either.

Bottom line is shoot what you like, caliber debates are pretty useless...

 

[Hitzy]

WTF does 'mucho' mean? I can't figure out what you are talking about from the context either.

Bottom line is shoot what you like, caliber debates are pretty useless...

Macho.......manly.....lots of balls......etc.....
I beleive it was a typo.

 

[Hungry]

Working on the wife with the 1911 ?

I'm an expert at that whether I like it or not. The answer to every question SHE has is, "Yes , Dear!"

I started her out with the .45 frame mounted with the conversion kit. At 5 paces, she was shooting at the black 1" patch on a sheet of (legal or letter, does not matter) white (recycled on the other side, from the office) paper. I instructed her to keep all of her .22LR bullets on the patch.

Then when she got all 10 bullets on the patch, she was happy to move back to 7 paces from the target. Immediate success. No spotting scope needed, no walking back and forth. When bullets were wandering from the patch, she was easily able to correct herself by walking forward BACK to 5 paces and refocusing on the principles of good marksmanship (Position, alignment, squeeze, follow through target, yada yada yada) ... No lecture needed. By now she was totally motivated to carry out her own selfcorrection. Guys, your role is encouragement, nothing but encouragement, remember that you are attempting to build a shooting champion first and foremost. That way, with good karma, you can get everything you want or need.

Then we moved the ammo box and magazines (on a chair) back to 10 paces and repeated the drill of shooting to keep all 10 .22LR slugs into the patch. A few would creep out and she now learned how to correct herself and call out the mistakes (anticipating, weak hand pulling down strong hand, improper sight picture, poor sight alignment, etc). And that's how all the sessions went for a couple of days of practice. Notice I never mentioned anything about the single stack 1911 9mm, YET....

Then the 3rd or 4th practice I busted open the 9mm 1911 single stack and took her back to 5 paces. Repeat the entire drill until she was comfortable at taking out the patch with 5 9mm bullets.

Then when she was happy with 5 bullets into the patch at 5 paces, we went a little faster. She started shooting at the weeds in the sandy backstop behind the target. She had lots of fun shooting rapid (5 rds only to facilitate more comfortable, large muscle memory) strings and carrying out the mag changes. FUN Factor... Get it , Guys ?? None of the macho shzt (yet or ever....)

Many of the OSA shooters on this CGNutz board will recognize this drill and the variations I have made with them. Instant success, lasting success, proven success, that's what brings newbies to the firing line over and over again.

Now she likes the Glock17 (but still too fat for her small hand, but she likes shooting it)

Her favorite is still the 9mm 1911 single stack. Hated the Browning HP since the magazines were a biatch to stuff with 9mm bullets. LOVES the softer springs of the 1911 9mm. She abhors the Glock17 magazines since their springs are too bloody stiff... bloody thumbs, too.

There, can we take this information to get your wives/girlfriends out an having fun ? It's all about converting gun-doubters and showing them the fun factor.