9mm PCC of choice for ultimate reliability and battle type use.

I own (or have owned) most of the available PCCs, less the Ruger PC9, Just Right Carbine, FX9, Keltec and TNW. I tend to buy PCCs that are reasonable facsimiles of in-service SMGs, not so much the purpose-built semi-auto designs. Hence the reason that I have not owned the firearms that I listed. I also still own a number of genuine 12(3) SMGs and 12(4 & 5) PCCs which I am no longer permitted to discharge, but that round out my stable of experience with the pistol-calibre shoulder arms. I have also previously owned most of the major WW II SMG designs, including the STEN Mk II, Thompson M1A1, Reising M50, PPSh-41, and the MP-40.

Of all the firearms currently within my collection (pictured below), I must tip my hat to the B+T APC9, which the US Army also recently selected as its new Close-Protection Weapon - the first new SMG type-classified by the US Military since the M3 "Grease Gun". All other characteristics being relatively equal, the APC9 shines because it is so utterly smooth in operation thanks to its hydraulic Rear Buffer. Next I would select the Scorpion EVO3 because it does everything that the others do, but better than most at an incredibly affordable price-point. The Scorpion is also the most simple design, being straight blow-back with no special buffers, etc. After that, it is a bit of a toss-up. I would tie the MP5 and the SIG MPX, as they share many similarities. The MPX is (perhaps) slightly smoother, but it is also much more complicated and over-engineered with its piston-driven operating system. The TP9 is an incredibly capable PCC/SMG/PDW for its miniscule size. As easily concealed as a pistol when fitted with a 20-round magazine and folded buttstock, it becomes a surprisingly accurate shoulder arm when deployed. The Angstadt Arms PDW was another competitor in the US Army's Close Protection Weapon Trials. It is a great choice if mated to a collapsible stock such as the MVB ARC-X or Maxim PDW Stock. Otherwise it is a bit long, but an excellent, high-quality direct blow-back design of PDW. My final nod of approval would go to the 9mm AR-based PCC/SMG. The Ergonomics are excellent with these firearms, given that they are those of the AR15. After that however, this designs's larger, awkward size makes it a lackluster choice by today's standards.

I would give the Uzi and its copycat brethren the Polish BRS-99 (or PM-84 SMG) a pass if other mentioned options were available. Weight, open-bolt design and lacklustre ergos are the Uzi's downfall. The BRS-99 has some updates and is lighter weight, but it still compares poorly to the other choices in my view. The Kriss Vector is a quirky, boutique SMG with an interesting recoil-countering operating system and a compact (folded) size, but it will never be a mainstream choice. The Sterling (or Canadian C1) SMG was a great choice in the 1950s and 60s, but was long in the tooth by the 1980s. Conventional 2nd Generation SMGs like the Sterling and its ancestor the STEN rightfully belong in museums today, although they are still very lethal out to 100m in trained hands. The Cobray MAC 11/9 is pretty much a bullet-hose, and not a very good one at that. Mine has been fitted with an aftermarket Lage Folding Stock which greatly enhances the fit, feel and stability of the firearm. Still, even with enhancements it would be a marginal choice at best...

The PS90 PDW is in a league of its own, based on its hybrid rifle/pistol ammo. Effective out to 200m against soft body armour, the PS90 and its unique ammo fall half-way between a carbine and an SMG while fulfilling the role of a PDW with twice the effective range of a conventional SMG. The P90 is a simple blow-back design wrapped up in an extremely compact and ergonomic chassis. There is not much to dislike about the P90, which brings a whole new level of effectiveness to the SMG-sized package.

The B+T USW320 is also a bit of an outlier, given its minimalist approach to providing users with a low-profile PDW capable of hits on man-sized targets out to 100m. At 50m and closer the USW320 is a frick'en laser, making easy hits on 6" gongs at 50m at speed. The USW320 is a very underrated and still relatively unknown PDW option.


B+T APC 9 9mm

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CZ Scorpion EVO 3 9mm

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HK MP5 (HK94 SBR) 9mm

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SIG MPX 9mm

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B+T TP9 9mm

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Angstadt Arms UDP9

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Rock River Arms AR15 9mm LAR9

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BRS 99 9mm

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FN Uzi 9mm

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Kriss Vector .45 ACP

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C1 SMG (Sterling) 9mm

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Sten Mk II 9mm

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Cobray MAC 11/9 9mm

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FN PS90 5.7x28

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B+T USW320 9mm

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OK, that's a pretty gnarly collection. You must be a kindred spirit with Military Arms Channel, he likes most of those, too.

I like your PS90 suggestion.
 
FN PS90

Negatives: ....The regular rail version is very high with build in iron sights. Stability of that rail is questionable for optics.


Note the lowered height of the Trijicon MRO on my PS90. Low-profile mounting solutions specific to each brand and style of optic are available Stateside from Design Machine Inc (https://dmachineri.com). Last I dealt with them, they still mailed direct to Canada (along with FN Specialties). Best of luck!
 
I’m in the market for a non-restricted 9mm PCC. What’s the feeling about the NR Kriss Vectors? Are they more fun plinkers or are they reasonably accurate? I like the look of them and the tech is intriguing.
 
I’m in the market for a non-restricted 9mm PCC. What’s the feeling about the NR Kriss Vectors? Are they more fun plinkers or are they reasonably accurate? I like the look of them and the tech is intriguing.

My Gen 1 Kriss Vector in .45 ACP is very accurate at 50m and reasonably accurate out to 100m (although quite a hold-over is needed to make hits). The .45 rings steel with authority! That said, as I noted in my earlier comments I consider the Vector to be an interesting "Boutique" firearm. It has an intriguing operating system with the recoil and muzzle rise-reducing counter-weighted recoil process. My Vector is somewhat ammo sensitive, and likes only clean, factory-fresh FMJ and some JHP ammo. I wouldn't say do not buy a Vector, but I would suggest something else for your first PCC so that the experience is a fully positive one.

My strong recommendation for anyone looking to get into their first PCC is the CZ Scorpion EVO. It offers by far the best "bang for buck" in the PCC market, providing you with a simple, straightforward blow-back operating system that will go literally thousands of rounds between cleanings (ask me how I know!). You can buy a slightly used EVO for under $1000, modify it with the upgraded Trigger Spring Kit, less severely-angled Pistol Grip, Enlarged Cocking Handle (for the "HK Slap"), a different folding stock (if that turns your crank), a Reflex Sight, etc, etc. Buy wisely and you will end up with a fully-featured and kitted PCC for considerably less than $2000!
 
You win this post. I agree on the B&T MP9/TP9/TMP, one of the best 9x19 SMG/PDWs sans the trigger pull, the newest version with thumb safety selector addresses the poor heavy progressive trigger conversion for semi compliance.

I own (or have owned) most of the available PCCs, less the Ruger PC9, Just Right Carbine, FX9, Keltec and TNW. I tend to buy PCCs that are reasonable facsimiles of in-service SMGs, not so much the purpose-built semi-auto designs. Hence the reason that I have not owned the firearms that I listed. I also still own a number of genuine 12(3) SMGs and 12(4 & 5) PCCs which I am no longer permitted to discharge, but that round out my stable of experience with the pistol-calibre shoulder arms. I have also previously owned most of the major WW II SMG designs, including the STEN Mk II, Thompson M1A1, Reising M50, PPSh-41, and the MP-40.

Of all the firearms currently within my collection (pictured below), I must tip my hat to the B+T APC9, which the US Army also recently selected as its new Close-Protection Weapon - the first new SMG type-classified by the US Military since the M3 "Grease Gun". All other characteristics being relatively equal, the APC9 shines because it is so utterly smooth in operation thanks to its hydraulic Rear Buffer. Next I would select the Scorpion EVO3 because it does everything that the others do, but better than most at an incredibly affordable price-point. The Scorpion is also the most simple design, being straight blow-back with no special buffers, etc. After that, it is a bit of a toss-up. I would tie the MP5 and the SIG MPX, as they share many similarities. The MPX is (perhaps) slightly smoother, but it is also much more complicated and over-engineered with its piston-driven operating system. The TP9 is an incredibly capable PCC/SMG/PDW for its miniscule size. As easily concealed as a pistol when fitted with a 20-round magazine and folded buttstock, it becomes a surprisingly accurate shoulder arm when deployed. The Angstadt Arms PDW was another competitor in the US Army's Close Protection Weapon Trials. It is a great choice if mated to a collapsible stock such as the MVB ARC-X or Maxim PDW Stock. Otherwise it is a bit long, but an excellent, high-quality direct blow-back design of PDW. My final nod of approval would go to the 9mm AR-based PCC/SMG. The Ergonomics are excellent with these firearms, given that they are those of the AR15. After that however, this designs's larger, awkward size makes it a lackluster choice by today's standards.

I would give the Uzi and its copycat brethren the Polish BRS-99 (or PM-84 SMG) a pass if other mentioned options were available. Weight, open-bolt design and lacklustre ergos are the Uzi's downfall. The BRS-99 has some updates and is lighter weight, but it still compares poorly to the other choices in my view. The Kriss Vector is a quirky, boutique SMG with an interesting recoil-countering operating system and a compact (folded) size, but it will never be a mainstream choice. The Sterling (or Canadian C1) SMG was a great choice in the 1950s and 60s, but was long in the tooth by the 1980s. Conventional 2nd Generation SMGs like the Sterling and its ancestor the STEN rightfully belong in museums today, although they are still very lethal out to 100m in trained hands. The Cobray MAC 11/9 is pretty much a bullet-hose, and not a very good one at that. Mine has been fitted with an aftermarket Lage Folding Stock which greatly enhances the fit, feel and stability of the firearm. Still, even with enhancements it would be a marginal choice at best...

The PS90 PDW is in a league of its own, based on its hybrid rifle/pistol ammo. Effective out to 200m against soft body armour, the PS90 and its unique ammo fall half-way between a carbine and an SMG while fulfilling the role of a PDW with twice the effective range of a conventional SMG. The P90 is a simple blow-back design wrapped up in an extremely compact and ergonomic chassis. There is not much to dislike about the P90, which brings a whole new level of effectiveness to the SMG-sized package.

The B+T USW320 is also a bit of an outlier, given its minimalist approach to providing users with a low-profile PDW capable of hits on man-sized targets out to 100m. At 50m and closer the USW320 is a frick'en laser, making easy hits on 6" gongs at 50m at speed. The USW320 is a very underrated and still relatively unknown PDW option.
 
Battle type use and no internet commandos? Ok The sterling C1 was issued to radio operators and truck drivers anyone that the

FN c1 or FN c2 was a bit too large. It had a folding stock making a pretty compact package. But in the late 80s the C7 and C8 were issued and I never saw a sterling on exercise after that. Probably because the non internet commandos realize that 9mm has a low ballistic coefficient, can be stopped by any form of Armor, and has less stopping power than 5.56 NATO.


If your question was what would be a decent gun to play Ipsc pcc game with I could relate my various experiences because I have tried several. The keltec sub 2000 is pretty awkward to use charging handle is in a weird position sights are awkward and if you put a red dot or low power scope you lose the only advantage it has in that it folds up to a small package. The thureon defence has great ergonomics but I have owned a couple and the firing pin fails on them. They either fail to fire or get stuck extended and go full auto. That might seem like fun but it is really dangerous as the gun goes off when you release the slide not when the trigger is engaged and the it is quite possible for the round to go off out of battery sending gas and fragments back into the eyes of the shooter. The beretta carbine worked well but the sights were awkward and not removable so a bit in the way when using an optic. The ruger pcc was the only pcc that I owned that worked the was it should had ok sights a little weird because they are mounted on the barrel but otherwise fairly decent ergonomics.

Eventually after spending thousands on the ultimate PCC I ended up Selling them all.I realized that I can just use a 10-22 in 22lr to plink steel with. It’s cheaper as accurate and just as fun.

Now would I take my 10-22 into battle. Not willingly. It has a low ballistic coefficient, can be stopped by any type of armour and has relatively low stopping power kind of like that other cartridge mentioned earlier.
 
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My Gen 1 Kriss Vector in .45 ACP is very accurate at 50m and reasonably accurate out to 100m (although quite a hold-over is needed to make hits). The .45 rings steel with authority! That said, as I noted in my earlier comments I consider the Vector to be an interesting "Boutique" firearm. It has an intriguing operating system with the recoil and muzzle rise-reducing counter-weighted recoil process. My Vector is somewhat ammo sensitive, and likes only clean, factory-fresh FMJ and some JHP ammo. I wouldn't say do not buy a Vector, but I would suggest something else for your first PCC so that the experience is a fully positive one.

My strong recommendation for anyone looking to get into their first PCC is the CZ Scorpion EVO. It offers by far the best "bang for buck" in the PCC market, providing you with a simple, straightforward blow-back operating system that will go literally thousands of rounds between cleanings (ask me how I know!). You can buy a slightly used EVO for under $1000, modify it with the upgraded Trigger Spring Kit, less severely-angled Pistol Grip, Enlarged Cocking Handle (for the "HK Slap"), a different folding stock (if that turns your crank), a Reflex Sight, etc, etc. Buy wisely and you will end up with a fully-featured and kitted PCC for considerably less than $2000!

Thank you! I've fired the scorpion and liked it. Only real downside is 5rnd mags correct?
 
Thank you! I've fired the scorpion and liked it. Only real downside is 5rnd mags correct?

Yes, 5 round mags on the Scorpion unless you can source some of the 10/30 Palmetto State Armoury (PSA) "AKV Pistol" magazines that were briefly sold on the Canadian market as a Scorpion alternative.
 
I have a colt 9mm ar with the 10" barrel and love it. I keep waffling about the cz, but for the 5 rd. mags. If I could get some 10 rounders it would be a done deal
 
Yes, 5 round mags on the Scorpion unless you can source some of the 10/30 Palmetto State Armoury (PSA) "AKV Pistol" magazines that were briefly sold on the Canadian market as a Scorpion alternative.

Weren't they literally only sold for a limited time in a single LGS with no website that you had to know of? Or were they brought over by others too? I never heard of the PSA AKV Pistol mags until it was far too late. It's a real bummer because the Scorpion EVO is such a nice gun but just completely gimped with 5 rounds. Let me know if you're willing to let one of your AKV mags go for less than a pretty penny :rolleyes:.
 
I'm looking for a PCC in 9mm that is very reliable and that you can get spare parts for (sorry H&K). Something along the lines of your most trusted 1911, Glock, or AR15 but in a PCC.

I'd like to hear what you guys have that you would recommend, based on experience of using them. And what pluses/minuses you would give them based on mag(Glock, Beretta etc being a plus) ease of procurement, how easy to get spare parts, Ambi friendly and anything else that you consider about them.

I'm not concerned about restricted vs non-restricted.

I have owned a couple different ones but ended up selling them for various reasons.
Beretta CX4
BRS-99

I'm looking for some real world experience with them, not so much Internet armchair general speculation based off the latest video game.

Never needed spare parts for any HK that I own, also never a malfunction that I didn't personally induce.
 
If this is for battle use as the op stated, is the party you are fighting only going to load 5 rounds as per Canadian law?

Just something to consider rather than choosing based on magazine type rather that proven reliability of the platform in war
 
Proprietary mags blows goats with Canada mag capacity limit, so I built a 9 mm AR using a QC 10 Glock lower, other than the BCG, barrel and lower every thing else is essentially off the shelf AR parts, so you can be as cheap or expensive as you want based on the parts you buy and it runs like an Energizer bunny with Magpul Glock pistol mags, you can't ask anything more than that.
 
Proprietary mags blows goats with Canada mag capacity limit, so I built a 9 mm AR using a QC 10 Glock lower, other than the BCG, barrel and lower every thing else is essentially off the shelf AR parts, so you can be as cheap or expensive as you want based on the parts you buy and it runs like an Energizer bunny with Magpul Glock pistol mags, you can't ask anything more than that.

Those QC10 Glock lowers are nicely made. What has your experience been with the last round bolt hold open reliability with the stock Magpul mags?
 
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