I'm amazed at how many I would normally assume had some understanding and intelligence actually don't. Too many people have been "Disneyized" and do not have a clue to what goes on outside of their little bubble. Before one goes off ranting about how they dislike one thing or another, how about actually researching it or partaking in it first hand?
Africa hunting video "amazing"
- Thread starter wadedc
- Start date
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
sealhunter you can post a story and pics of a farm hunt complete with tractor and doughnuts, yet give DUMB-ASS opinions on Africa or Polar Bears?
You talk about getting educated, well why don't you?
It was in jest. My point was, that my buffalo hunt, was not a "hunt' or at least not in my oppinion. i would never call it one, ... nor was it reffered to as one. it was referred to as 'meat day' by us.
It was a herd of buffalo that never caught in the fall and were a liability.
I've shot and butchered many, but none of them were 'hunted"
I've shot some at 200 yrds, some with powder burns to the ear.
sure i could hop in the pen and torment the #### out of them until one takes a run at me or they corral me, and make a video of it, and call it a hunt. but it isn't.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
It amaze me the number of hunters, who fall short of my definition sometimes. oh well, it's an oppinion.
I am amazed at the complete lack of understanding of hunting in Africa. Generalizations like it is only for the rich and they are hunting endanger species. Holy cow, do some research before your get onto your soap box. I was hunting in Africa in May, trip of a lifetime and I am not rich. Neither were the guys with me. Canned hunts? I don't think so. Most of my guys hunting walked 10-12 km a day tracking game. Drive up to the animals and shoot them? Nope, you tracked them. One of our hunters spent 8 days trying to get a shot on a very large trophy animal. He worked very very hard for the animal.
I get a little upset when I see sweeping comments and generalizations without a basis in fact. Endangered species? Let me guess, you think Elephants are endangered? In some areas in Africa they are....but in others they are in great numbers and have to be controlled. Gosh...just like alot of animals in Canada. Some animals are on general licences....and some on very restricted draws or can not be hunted at all in some areas. All part of professional management of the animals. You would not want to hunt an elephant...then don't. Don't want to hunt in Africa....then don't. Personally I enjoyed hunting the wide variety of species of animals and worked for everyone that I got. But damn, don't sit there and get all philosophical on me about what you think is morally or ethical right. Legal animal management is required in other places besides Canada. Hunting in Canada generates revenue for sustainable management practices...and so too in other places.
If you don't want to trophy hunt, then don't but don't lecture others. I bowhunt and work for every animal I get. Maybe we should take away your rifle since it is so easy to get within 200 yards or take away your scope since you might take longer shots. Guess what, it is all hunting and all good. You decide what you like but don't lecture others because they don't hunt the way you do. Everyone is different, you should respect that. The activities shown in the videos are legal, and as most were fair chase from what I observed. Places like Zimbabwe have few fences.
Just because it does not fit your slim definition of hunting, don't get your knickers in a knot if we vigorously defend hunting outside of your bubble. Your entitled to an opinion, but best you understand what your arguing against before you make rather sweeping generalizations to support your commentary.
I get a little upset when I see sweeping comments and generalizations without a basis in fact. Endangered species? Let me guess, you think Elephants are endangered? In some areas in Africa they are....but in others they are in great numbers and have to be controlled. Gosh...just like alot of animals in Canada. Some animals are on general licences....and some on very restricted draws or can not be hunted at all in some areas. All part of professional management of the animals. You would not want to hunt an elephant...then don't. Don't want to hunt in Africa....then don't. Personally I enjoyed hunting the wide variety of species of animals and worked for everyone that I got. But damn, don't sit there and get all philosophical on me about what you think is morally or ethical right. Legal animal management is required in other places besides Canada. Hunting in Canada generates revenue for sustainable management practices...and so too in other places.
If you don't want to trophy hunt, then don't but don't lecture others. I bowhunt and work for every animal I get. Maybe we should take away your rifle since it is so easy to get within 200 yards or take away your scope since you might take longer shots. Guess what, it is all hunting and all good. You decide what you like but don't lecture others because they don't hunt the way you do. Everyone is different, you should respect that. The activities shown in the videos are legal, and as most were fair chase from what I observed. Places like Zimbabwe have few fences.
Just because it does not fit your slim definition of hunting, don't get your knickers in a knot if we vigorously defend hunting outside of your bubble. Your entitled to an opinion, but best you understand what your arguing against before you make rather sweeping generalizations to support your commentary.
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- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
I made no sweeping generalizations. What I did say, and was stated in many areas in most of my posts, was "MY OPPINION"
No I do not think trophy hunting is anything great, nor do I think shooting animals on a game farm is hunting. No where did I say that there was no benefit, nor did I say it was illegal, and so on and so on. I said by "my" definition, shooting a hippo in the water, shooting a lion (becuase I can), shooting a Buffalo in a pen, are not what I would call hunting.
I would rather donate 10,000 (which I won't) to habitat and governence etc, and have a trip of just viewing the animals. Shooting them, because I can, does not appeal to me.
No I do not think trophy hunting is anything great, nor do I think shooting animals on a game farm is hunting. No where did I say that there was no benefit, nor did I say it was illegal, and so on and so on. I said by "my" definition, shooting a hippo in the water, shooting a lion (becuase I can), shooting a Buffalo in a pen, are not what I would call hunting.
I would rather donate 10,000 (which I won't) to habitat and governence etc, and have a trip of just viewing the animals. Shooting them, because I can, does not appeal to me.
Slowbalt said:
Slowbalt, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Slowbalt, this is not a discussion about what you believe or are interested regards hunting. It is your right to decide what interests you and then pursue that. But be very careful not to condemn what others are doing legally and ethically.
If you do not not want to hunt the African elephant then don't. But you are making judgements about something that you obviously know little about.
It is exactly the type of sentiment that you express that is a risk to all hunters. You are the type that hunts with a rifle and then is jealous and raises a stink when a new zone is opened to bow hunting only. Or maybe you are a bow hunter and is pissed off that cross bow hunting is now going to be allowed. Sacre bleu! How can this be!?
Maybe you think only the whitetail should be hunted, or le' original, or the black bear... rabbits and elephants are sacred, etc...
Well get this, without an economic incentive, which safari hunting provides, the elephant, cape buffalo etc, have no future. Those animals represent nothing but obstacles to settling and clearing the land. Hunting gives them a reason to exist. Otherwise they are just a dangerous f**king animal that you would be better to get rid of.
Are you aware that the countries which have banned sport hunting have seen steady and drastic decreases in the numbers of elephant? It is because there is no reason to put up with the bastards. Better to remove them or poach them for their ivory.
Read Mahoboh, it is available from www.SafariPress.com. It was written by Ron Thomson, who spent 20+ years as an elephant control officer in several African countries. He was an ardent proponent of ending the senseless elephant culls and instead controlling the populations by controlled, regulated hunting.
Ron Thomson killed over 1,000 elephants. Entire herds, cows, caves, bulls etc... Does that make any sense to you?
It was done because the elephant were over-grazing their range. Elephant require so much food and water that they can literally turn rain forest into desert, when their population gets too high.
They may be threatened in isolated areas but in others they are so numerous they have to be controlled somehow.
What should the game manager do, that has the responsibilty to administer an elephant herd, that is expanding? Relocate them to another country? How about Quebec? Maybe outside of Montreal? What? Too many people, they would confict! Well it's the same in Africa!
There is no other remote country with sufficient room for these huge animals; it has all been settled by an expanding human population! You can put maybe a handful in a zoo, but not 200 hundred or a thousand. So they are forced to kill the excess animals. Since some must be killed, there is no way around it, why not benefit by allowing hunters to pursue them? Why not?
Do you realize that those ''paying poachers'' are paying upwards of $30,000 to hunt a single elephant bull? That is only the elephant trophy fee. It's the same as any hunting anywhere. Restaurants, hotels, hunting guides, airlines, local natives hired to run the safari camp, everybody gets some of that money.
When a elephant is killed the locals arrive from miles around to haul off the meat. No benefit, eh?
One of the most important game management tools today is the PAC hunt; that is Problem Animal Control. An elephant(s) goes into a village and destroys the crop of a native farmer, maybe people are killed even. In the old days the natives would kill it or maybe wound it with muzzle loaders, poison arrows etc, or the alternative would be that Game Wardens would pursue it and kill it.
Now many countries take and call in the Game Dept to look at the situation, they classify it as a PAC animal. It has to be killed anyway so they sell the right to kill that animal to a safari company, that has a waiting list of clients that want to kill an elephant.
Once again, this isn't about whether or not you want to kill an elephant, it is about the fact that an elephant has been designated a problem animal that is destroying farms crops and is a threat to kill people if it is not removed, and guess what? No place to remove it to.
If elephant become extinct, it will not be because of regulated safari hunting! Are you aware that Gov't Game Wardens observe all hunting of dangerous game in Africa? Every operation. It is not wanton slaughter, but carefully managed with quotas and target numbers to harvest. It is documented, regulated, blah, blah, blah...
If you take my suggestion and get that book Mahoboh and read it, then you may begin to understand.
How about have Game Wardens regulate the numbers, determine a sustainable harvest, shoot older animals, derive income that benefits the local community, the Gov't etc...
If you think there is no benefit to the hunt in Africa then you really need to get educated about the modern realities facing game animals in Africa and if you think they are better off in parks, with photo safaris as their existence then you and I sure do not think alike.
I have on order the book The Hunting Imperative, by Richard Harland. Another guy that spent years and years shooting excess elephants. He also shoot over 1,000 elephants, it is the story of that experience. Maybe you could buy it when you pick up Mahoboh.
Until you read and get educated you are just expressing the emotional views that the P.E.T.A.'s of this world spew.
Good day to you.
I am another one with no desire to shoot an elephant or lion, polar or grizzly bear etc. Not because of any concern over their numbers, danger etc . It is just not a goal of mine.
That said i do see sport hunting of several African animals as good management. As stated above these animals are in many ways obstacles to the natives way of life. Without an economic incentive there is no way the animals will survive. Photo safaris only appeal to some. Even if the tourist trade would provide the economic incentive what will become of surplus animals? Will park rangers or hired guns cull the extra animals? Why pay for this operation when there are those who are willing to ante up thousands of dollars for the opportunity?
If one does not consider it a heroic act then no one insists you worship at the feet of those who may tell of daring and life threatening experiences. A gentle 'Oh" is a good response.
There are many who take pride in "accomplishments" that mean little to me. As an example who cares how many points a football player scored? Does being a champion golfer get you excited?
I know what animaqls I like to hunt and reserve my respect to those with similar interests. This does not mean I feel football or golf must be banned.
That said i do see sport hunting of several African animals as good management. As stated above these animals are in many ways obstacles to the natives way of life. Without an economic incentive there is no way the animals will survive. Photo safaris only appeal to some. Even if the tourist trade would provide the economic incentive what will become of surplus animals? Will park rangers or hired guns cull the extra animals? Why pay for this operation when there are those who are willing to ante up thousands of dollars for the opportunity?
If one does not consider it a heroic act then no one insists you worship at the feet of those who may tell of daring and life threatening experiences. A gentle 'Oh" is a good response.
There are many who take pride in "accomplishments" that mean little to me. As an example who cares how many points a football player scored? Does being a champion golfer get you excited?
I know what animaqls I like to hunt and reserve my respect to those with similar interests. This does not mean I feel football or golf must be banned.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Which of the animals in that video were on an endangered or even threatened list? I didn't see any. Is your problem with hunting or with people who have the financial resources to be able to participate in the activity of their choosing? Anyone can get rich if they are prepared to make the sacrifices and take the risks to do so. I'm not, yet I have had good fortune where hunting and travel opportunities have fallen into my lap. I also choose to live in a place where I can enjoy frequent contact with "dangerous" game.
As for the unrest in various parts of Africa, Jeff Cooper opined that it added to the allure, much as did the exploring of the American west during the Indian wars throughout the 19th century. Emerging nations have their difficulties, and if safety is you primary concern, perhaps you should just stay out of Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, and much of Asia. When it comes right down to it, the Zambezi Valley is probably safer than Paris, LA, Chicago, or Toronto, and a site more pleasing to the eye and soul of those who appreciate wild places. "Can't we just get along??" The war cry of the LA riots!
Oooohhhh.... Sorry to have stepped on your mighty foot and africa hunting situation university degree...
That was my oppinion, you won't change it, and even less by trying to make me look stupid.
Don't like what I say ? Bl*w me
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Is that what you told the guy's you screwed in the EE too?
Gents,
Wearing my moderator hat here.
Keep it civil. Knock off the personal attacks and swearing....against the rules you know. If you want to have a discussion, continue to state your position. If you want others to acknowledge you have an opinion, I think that has been done. You have an opinion on the issue. If you would like to continue the discussion, please provide some meaningful input. Restating your allowed to have an opinion is not productive.
Knock off the personal attacks....
Wearing my moderator hat here.
Keep it civil. Knock off the personal attacks and swearing....against the rules you know. If you want to have a discussion, continue to state your position. If you want others to acknowledge you have an opinion, I think that has been done. You have an opinion on the issue. If you would like to continue the discussion, please provide some meaningful input. Restating your allowed to have an opinion is not productive.
Knock off the personal attacks....
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
Well, well well....
I have hunted with lots of people on here. I have been with guys who were quite happy to be with someone who would pass let them take the 9 or 11 point atypical, or the 52 spread, etc. I go out hunting to enjoy a good time in the woods, relax, ... if I take an animal i am thinking meat, not rack. most people I hunt with are thinking about both, and very few people do I hunt with who are only concerned with the rack.
I have seen a moose shot for it's rack, in an area that was pretty well impassable, on a very warm fall day. all the meat was spoiled. That really bothered me.
As for African safari's, it does not appeal to me one bit... It may be game management, fine, but it still does not appeal to me. the 10,000 may be used to help a community, that's well and good. I would prefer to go there and take one animal and have a big spit and eat it and be a tourist for the rst of my stay. (but for that scenario I certainly wouldn't pay 10,000)
animals raised on game farms, etc etc. Not into that either. when you apeak of maintaining your herd, feeding it the best biologics, etc etc. That is farming as far as i am concerened. Game farming, not hunting.
My oppinion is not that african Safari serves no benefit. My oppinion is that many of them provide a service for which I have no desire, and the stories of great wild animal hunts leave me a little deflated when 80% of the hunt is staged for the experience of the hunter. For me, this is not hunting.
many people call microwaving a frozen dinner cooking too.
People can sometimes get their back up pretty easy when they feel they are being attacked, and i assure you, unless you are swinging, I'm just sat back enjoying the discussion.
If you can have your buttons pushed and wiittedly rise above it, you gain a lot more respect, and your oppinion carries a lot more weight than when your replies are riddled with personal attackes ( we all fail sometimes though)
As for knowing little on the topic. i know less than many of the people who have done the hunts, but am good friends with aout 20 people who have, i have a lot of friends in south Africa and have had many invites and offers. I am currently courting a job in qatar. I have studied economic and socioeconomic situations and consequences in many areas, but that does not change what is instilled. Believe me I am passionate, but not blind.
african safaris may be good for the country, but for me, I'd rather contribute, If i do contribute, in other ways.
I have hunted with lots of people on here. I have been with guys who were quite happy to be with someone who would pass let them take the 9 or 11 point atypical, or the 52 spread, etc. I go out hunting to enjoy a good time in the woods, relax, ... if I take an animal i am thinking meat, not rack. most people I hunt with are thinking about both, and very few people do I hunt with who are only concerned with the rack.
I have seen a moose shot for it's rack, in an area that was pretty well impassable, on a very warm fall day. all the meat was spoiled. That really bothered me.
As for African safari's, it does not appeal to me one bit... It may be game management, fine, but it still does not appeal to me. the 10,000 may be used to help a community, that's well and good. I would prefer to go there and take one animal and have a big spit and eat it and be a tourist for the rst of my stay. (but for that scenario I certainly wouldn't pay 10,000)
animals raised on game farms, etc etc. Not into that either. when you apeak of maintaining your herd, feeding it the best biologics, etc etc. That is farming as far as i am concerened. Game farming, not hunting.
My oppinion is not that african Safari serves no benefit. My oppinion is that many of them provide a service for which I have no desire, and the stories of great wild animal hunts leave me a little deflated when 80% of the hunt is staged for the experience of the hunter. For me, this is not hunting.
many people call microwaving a frozen dinner cooking too.
People can sometimes get their back up pretty easy when they feel they are being attacked, and i assure you, unless you are swinging, I'm just sat back enjoying the discussion.
If you can have your buttons pushed and wiittedly rise above it, you gain a lot more respect, and your oppinion carries a lot more weight than when your replies are riddled with personal attackes ( we all fail sometimes though)
As for knowing little on the topic. i know less than many of the people who have done the hunts, but am good friends with aout 20 people who have, i have a lot of friends in south Africa and have had many invites and offers. I am currently courting a job in qatar. I have studied economic and socioeconomic situations and consequences in many areas, but that does not change what is instilled. Believe me I am passionate, but not blind.
african safaris may be good for the country, but for me, I'd rather contribute, If i do contribute, in other ways.
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Sealhunter, thanks for your opinion. I think you have made it clear that you don't like hunting in Africa and will not go there to hunt. Having just returned from a hunting trip in Africa, I clearly considering what I did hunting and enjoyed every moment of it. Nothing artificial about my experience, no different than hunting here in Alberta. I earned every animal I hunted. You consider it game farming but I did not see evidence to support that. I will defer to your experiences which formulate your opinion but it does not reflect my experience.
I sense you need to have the last word on alot of this from reading your other posts so feel free but I think your opinion is pretty well stated.
I sense you need to have the last word on alot of this from reading your other posts so feel free but I think your opinion is pretty well stated.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
could care less about the last word, and i'm glad you had an enjoyable trip.
Not all are game farms, ...I have no experience only the experiences of others. Perhaps with more stories like yours, my oppinion will change, who knows.
Not all are game farms, ...I have no experience only the experiences of others. Perhaps with more stories like yours, my oppinion will change, who knows.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
ooops, LAsT WORD !
If you want to learn more about hunting in Africa, check out:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2361175#post2361175
I booked my trip with www.huntafrica.ca. John works as an agent and will get you exactly the type of hunt you want.
I am going back again next year to bowhunt with my two sons. I am selling off a lot of my guns and gear to be able to afford it. I decided the experience was so good, that it is worth thinning out all my toys to be able to go again and experience it with my kids. Once you get there and see the opportunities, you will want to go back. It was a fantastic experience. Spending the time with a professional hunter who serves as your guide was also a great opportunity. I learned a great deal from mine and look forward to spending more time with him in the future.
I hope to have the opportunity to take a buffalo with my bow. That is getting up close and personal....
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2361175#post2361175
I booked my trip with www.huntafrica.ca. John works as an agent and will get you exactly the type of hunt you want.
I am going back again next year to bowhunt with my two sons. I am selling off a lot of my guns and gear to be able to afford it. I decided the experience was so good, that it is worth thinning out all my toys to be able to go again and experience it with my kids. Once you get there and see the opportunities, you will want to go back. It was a fantastic experience. Spending the time with a professional hunter who serves as your guide was also a great opportunity. I learned a great deal from mine and look forward to spending more time with him in the future.
I hope to have the opportunity to take a buffalo with my bow. That is getting up close and personal....
Slowbalt said:
I was extremely civil and it appears that making you look stupid is an easy thing to do.
It does bother me though, when someone who claims to be a hunter choses to put their head in the sand and remain ignorant, about serious hunting discussions.
Later...
