AK 47 or AR 15

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I read the whole thread about the advantages of the AK versus the AR platform.
I am going to answer the question once and for all. This last thread started because mister kalishnikov stated that US soldiers prefered his gun to the AR
in Iraq.
The AR rifle is a better rifle for a well trained profesional soldier who can take advantage of the better accuracy. What makes the 5.56 round better for a rifleman has little to do with wounding and everything to do with being able to
carry much more in the same weight.

The AK is the perfect weapon to equip recruits or militia. It is simple ,rugged
and they are probably familiar with it. A folding stock vesion with a 40 round mag is much better for use in a vehicle than the AR even the M4 and the sound of the weapon does not alert the populace to Nato or US forces. Use of the AK
in a vehicle also makes the heavier weight of the ammo much less important.

So the final answer to the AK versus AR question is they are different tools that excell at different jobs. I would want an AK with folding stock if I was in a vehicle and an M4 with a grip pod and trijicon on a walking patrol and can take advantage of light ammo and more range.

Here in canada I would not opt for either though I would go for a pimped out custom short FAL if I had $ or a norinco M305 with a socom16 makeover if I was on a budget.
 
AK is made of Steel and Wood/Plastics.
AR is made of Aluminum, Steel and Plastics.

AK mags are made of steel
AR mags are made of anodized aluminum

AK cartridges have a 123 grain bullet and have a heavy steel casing
AR cartridges have a 55 grain bullet and have a lightwieght brass casing

AK bullets are moving slow(2300 fps) and have a greater bullet drop for engagement distances
AR bullets are moving fast(3200 fps) and have a minimal bullet drop for engagement distances

AK accuracy is very limited
AR accuracy is flatter and more concise

AK weighs 8.7lbs loaded(16" barrel)
AR weighs 7.2 lbs loaded(20" barrel) M4 wieghs 6.5 lbs loaded(16" barrel)

AK bullet tumbles and exits body cavity, transfering only half of it's energy.
AR bullet tumbles, fragments, and stays in the body transferring all of it's energy.

AK will work in numerous environments
AR must be kept clean and debris-free in most environments

AK is loose-fitting and therefore prone to constant operation without maintenance
AR is relatively close fitting and can jam on minor debris without maintenance

AK mag catch is ambidextrous
AR mag catch is ambidextrous

AK charging handle is righthand dominant
AR charging handle is ambidextrous

AK ejection is directly back and to the right inhibiting lefthand useage
AR ejection has a case deflector and allows ambidextrous useage

AK reloading requires removal and replacement of both hands and takes longer
AR reloading requires removal of only one hand(supporting hand) and takes less time

AK has a slow rate of fire
AR has a higher rate of fire

AK has a high recoil impulse and greater muzzle flip
AR has a low recoil impulse and very low muzzle flip

IMHO the AR is the better choice...less missed shots due to higher accuracy and lower recoil/muzzle flip...larger amount of carried ammo due to lighter weight of ammo and rifle...better ergonomics and faster reload times...more damaging cartridge design...ambidextrous charging handle(injured soldier utility)

The AK is a useful, simple assault rifle that can be used by almost any fool...but there is the crux...a fool and his life are soon parted in the battlefield. The AK's reliability are a bonus for sure, but it's relatively low accuracy and heavy composition make it unwieldly for anything but a large well-armed contigent of soldiers.

Also I think that this should be moved to Black Rifles :D
 
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I also forgot to add:

AK magazine locking system is a rock and lock, where the operator must position and fit the front hook of the mag first and then rock the mag backwards to catch the rear lock...the same method must be used for removal of the magazine...unlocking the rear catch and then rocking the mag forwards and then down to disengage from the front hook.

AR magazine locking system is like a pistol, in which the magazine simply drops out of the magwell with a push of a button. The next magazine simply needs to be slid into the magwell until it stops moving and is locked with the magcatch on the leftside of the magwell. This system allows the user to push the magazine catch with the pointer finger of the firing hand without letting go of the grip, and at the same time remove a magazine from a magpouch and insert it into the now empty magwell with the supporting hand.

AR is faster...both for right handed reloading and left handed reloading
 
markl said:
so what's wrong?
Click to expand...

Go find out in combat.

chairborne5pk9.jpg
 
Ok, now I'm curious. Would someone who has used either in a combat situation be willing to give their list of pro's and con's to the rest of us?

Cheers all
 
yeah, weird how some of us like to discuss guns...:rolleyes:



if anyone want to add or argue the points made without telling me to go into combat to get my own answers, that'd be swell
 
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Dont forget that it is also easier to strip and clean the AK once necessary, it is cheaper to manufacture, easier to use, etc. The latest variant in 7.62x39, the AK-103, doesn't have much muzzle rise at all, due to the excellent muzzle break, and the straighter stock over the AK-47 (the straighter stock appeared on the AKM and up I believe).

A quality AK (not some homemade Iraq, carved by hand rifle) should be capable to firing below 6 inches at 100 meters...which seems fine for the range it will be used at.

This debate will go out of hand in no time.

Cheers,
Alex
 
When I worked in Finland the boys I worked with were very happy with their Valmets and Sakos. They said at 300 meters they hit anything they eaimed at. The system is not to blame for shortcomings only the way it is built and the Finns can really build Kalashnikovs well.
 
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