Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply Any Good?

[Epoxy7]

Fantastic service, fantastic quality, fantastic performance. Very tough to beat.

Looks similar to some of mine.
I put this together. Granted the upper is an ADCOR but I pieced this lower together myself.

You can find another thread like this here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/965099-ATRS-AR-15-Are-they-worth-the-price?highlight=ADCOR

 

[F22_RaptoR]

They have some nice stuff but they sure know how to charge for it. Personally I found the prices to be very high and while nice looking stuff the value wasn't there for me. For others it may be exactly what they are looking for and don't mind paying extra for it.

The only reason I don't own a KAC is the price is too high. Nice rifles, especially the lowers but not great value. The ATR makes the KAC look like a deal. Given a choice between these I would go KAC, LMT mrp, Noveske etc first.

If going for a semi custom AR15 for accuracy etc then look at the Les Bauer.

If you want ATR quality in a directly comparable upper/lower then take a look at having a rifle built on the HERA HLS lower and upper. They are directly comparable in both feauture and quality. Hard to find but the price is substantially less. Order up your choice of high end barrel, high end bolt, gieselle trigger etc and pay a competent gun smithto put it together. There is no magic with the AR other than finding the perfect parts to go together. This last part is a service I believe for the most part ATR does provide. You can orde up what you want and they will put parts that work well together. But the cost is very high and at this point it's debatable for resale if ATR AR rifles have any real brand recognition. In other words you might only get slightly better than franken gun prices if you go to sell.

Contrary to what has been posted most wealthy people do not like over paying. The wealthiest tend to be very careful with their purchases. They generally have money because they spend it carefully. While I unfortunately don't fit into the wealthy category I definately enjoy the art of the good buy. Frankly it's half the fun. Plus it's skill that can put you on even footing with those making a fair amount more than what I make. In otherwords it may not be a matter of whether or not someone has the ability to buy the product as the overall deciding factor for their purchase decision.

Sorry dude, but stopping you at the bolded part.

As having previously worked at a place that sold and built HERA Arms stuff, I can tell you it's absolute garbage.

Fitment issues with charging handles, mag releases, safety selectors (not to mention their Ambi safety) as well as good luck fitting a HERA upper OR lower to another upper/lower. We had a guy with an Adcor upper and a HERA lower and you could see through the gap, it almost needed a rubber mallet to get the takedown pin in place. And you're also not getting the ambi bolt release, because they haven't actually gotten around to releasing them yet! (their hold-over was including sending a Magpul BAD lever) And the coatings/paint the use on their tan versions is a joke as well. Just about every gun on the rack that was built had paint chipping off from basic rack wear.

There is a reason Gravel Agency gave up carrying HERA stuff, and now my old company dumped them as well.


I have an ATRS lower, and yes it's expensive; some people get very offended when they can't afford a (or are not willing to spend) 700 dollars on a lower (with complete LPK), but the fact remains that the fit and finish of my lower is damn near the best out of any lower I've laid hands upon. Yes you DO pay for "the law of diminishing returns", the little things like the set screws retaining all your springs; the cuts in the trigger guard to prevent sharp edges, the tension screw for the upper. That's the kind of stuff that puts the price from a $400 dollar CADEX lower to a $700 ATRS lower.


But I've seen your arguments before, you've already made your mind up... Personally I don't care; but you seem to be pretty happy to jump in and dogpile ATRS whenever you can. If you don't want to spend that much on a lower, then that's okay! (Motiuk makes a great Canadian made forged lower for 250-ish?) But don't get upset when there ARE people willing to spend that on a high end rifle!

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Just so we are all on the same page here, there are many prices being floated around. To set the record straight our AT15 lower WITHOUT the LPK is $550.00 This INCLUDES the ambi bolt release and the upper tensioning device and the captured detents AND the professional installation and test firing with any LPK you choose, either for us to supply at additional parts cost or you to provide.
Also please note that despite the added features and improvements that our Gen 4 lowers offer, the price has not changed since we started to manufacture AT15s in 2008.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Just so we are all on the same page here, there are many prices being floated around. To set the record straight our AT15 lower WITHOUT the LPK is $550.00 This INCLUDES the ambi bolt release and the upper tensioning device and the captured detents AND the professional installation and test firing with any LPK you choose, either for us to supply at additional parts cost or you to provide.
Also please note that despite the added features and improvements that our Gen 4 lowers offer, the price has not changed since we started to manufacture AT15s in 2008.

Yes, I should have mentioned my price was with a full LPK and components

 

[MET]

If I was making oil patch money I would most likely buy one of there AR's.

 

[Epoxy7]

Sorry dude, but stopping you at the bolded part.

As having previously worked at a place that sold and built HERA Arms stuff, I can tell you it's absolute garbage.

Fitment issues with charging handles, mag releases, safety selectors (not to mention their Ambi safety) as well as good luck fitting a HERA upper OR lower to another upper/lower. We had a guy with an Adcor upper and a HERA lower and you could see through the gap, it almost needed a rubber mallet to get the takedown pin in place. And you're also not getting the ambi bolt release, because they haven't actually gotten around to releasing them yet! (their hold-over was including sending a Magpul BAD lever) And the coatings/paint the use on their tan versions is a joke as well. Just about every gun on the rack that was built had paint chipping off from basic rack wear...

Really? Take a closer look at that picture of my lower with ADCOR upper. I have two of these. One with FDE furniture and one with black. In otherwords I have two HERA HLS full ambi lowers that say differently than what you posted. Ambi bolt release was installed when they came. I bought these a while ago now . They also come with a nice SS hex pistol grip screw. Excellent quality lowers. I did however have two and matched the best fitting. They are very tight but still a very good fit. I will say it might have not been as good if I wasn't able to pair them but still pretty darn good.

Also note they have a protective well around the left side mag release. Built full ambi from the get go. Basically the Magpul ambi mag that never went into full production. Plus the shape for the front of the magwell is nice for how it fits your palm if your hand is close to it. This is a very nice lower.

This is the HLS model not the non ambi you might be thinking of. It's not particularly common. In fact I have the first two in Canada. I bought them about a year ago now.

the little things like the set screws retaining all your springs; the cuts in the trigger guard to prevent sharp edges, the tension screw for the upper. That's the kind of stuff that puts the price from a $400 dollar CADEX lower to a $700 ATRS lower.

I paid slightly under $400 for each of my HLS lowers stripped but with ambi bolt release installed (that's how they are shipped). No set screws but also has nice bevelling, the built in placement for the left ambi release and a nice shape for the front of the magwell that fits your palm nicely when on the handguard but close to the magwell. 7075 billet like the ATR and Cadex.

But I've seen your arguments before, you've already made your mind up... Personally I don't care; but you seem to be pretty happy to jump in and dogpile ATRS whenever you can. If you don't want to spend that much on a lower, then that's okay! (Motiuk makes a great Canadian made forged lower for 250-ish?) But don't get upset when there ARE people willing to spend that on a high end rifle!

I don't dogpile on ATR at all. Nice products. I've said that all along. But the price is out of line. The four lowers I seriiously considered with those uppers were Hera HLS, ATR, Cadex and KAC. People can buy what they want but don't you be upset when I don't agree with your opinion on value. Especially when I posted a pic of one of my rifles with a comparable much less expensive German made lower you claim doesn't exist!

 

[t_102]

Forgive me but if upper/lower fitments is what we're discussing, might as well bring in Norincos into the discussion. Those fitment is a must and doesnt even belong in a discussion about quality.

What I'm really curious is for ATR point out tangible improvements over brands such as KAC, LMT. For example, is the anodizing of higher quality? Are the receivers actually designed with structures that aids in strength or are they pure aesthetics subjected to taste? What about type of aluminum used, such as 7075?

Simply put: What does your product offer to the customer that other companies such as KAC or LMT cannot, thus the higher price? Remember, things like surface finish on those KACs isn't exactly "mediocre" to start with. Also, high wage shouldn't be a reason for charging the customer for more either.

As a smart consumer, these are the things I would look at when comparing brands, and not things like "made in canada" etc etc, Thanks!

 

[Hitzy]

Forgive me but if upper/lower fitments is what we're discussing, might as well bring in Norincos into the discussion. Those fitment is a must and doesnt even belong in a discussion about quality.

What I'm really curious is for ATR point out tangible improvements over brands such as KAC, LMT. For example, is the anodizing of higher quality? Are the receivers actually designed with structures that aids in strength or are they pure aesthetics subjected to taste? What about type of aluminum used, such as 7075?

Simply put: What does your product offer to the customer that other companies such as KAC or LMT cannot, thus the higher price? Remember, things like surface finish on those KACs isn't exactly "mediocre" to start with. Also, high wage shouldn't be a reason for charging the customer for more either.

As a smart consumer, these are the things I would look at when comparing brands, and not things like "made in canada" etc etc, Thanks!

It's the most expensive, therefore the best. That is all you will get for proof or justification. And if you don't believe that you are poor and clueless and don't know how much a CNC operator costs these days...

 

[Moparman1303]

Bought my gas block with rail from them. I could not be happier! High quality and fits perfect with my fortis rail!

 

[Schecter 81]

Really? Take a closer look at that picture of my lower with ADCOR upper. I have two of these. One with FDE furniture and one with black. In otherwords I have two HERA HLS full ambi lowers that say differently than what you posted. Ambi bolt release was installed when they came. I bought these a while ago now . They also come with a nice SS hex pistol grip screw. Excellent quality lowers. I did however have two and matched the best fitting. They are very tight but still a very good fit. I will say it might have not been as good if I wasn't able to pair them but still pretty darn good.

Also note they have a protective well around the left side mag release. Built full ambi from the get go. Basically the Magpul ambi mag that never went into full production. Plus the shape for the front of the magwell is nice for how it fits your palm if your hand is close to it. This is a very nice lower.

This is the HLS model not the non ambi you might be thinking of. It's not particularly common. In fact I have the first two in Canada. I bought them about a year ago now.



I paid slightly under $400 for each of my HLS lowers stripped but with ambi bolt release installed (that's how they are shipped). No set screws but also has nice bevelling, the built in placement for the left ambi release and a nice shape for the front of the magwell that fits your palm nicely when on the handguard but close to the magwell. 7075 billet like the ATR and Cadex.



I don't dogpile on ATR at all. Nice products. I've said that all along. But the price is out of line. The four lowers I seriiously considered with those uppers were Hera HLS, ATR, Cadex and KAC. People can buy what they want but don't you be upset when I don't agree with your opinion on value. Especially when I posted a pic of one of my rifles with a comparable much less expensive German made lower you claim doesn't exist!

While this is and ATR thread and I will get to that, I have to agree, I have a HERA upper lower combo and it is fricken stellar. Fitment and quality are outstanding.

Now on to ATR. Dustin has always been very helpful when I have ordered small parts, powder, and bullets. He did a great job working with me lining up some Redding dies for my .284 I had built. Unfortunately when I had my .284 built, I did have them quote me on it and nearly had a heart attack. For all the same components, they were 2k higher than the smith that built it for me. No proprietary ATRS parts (action). Nothing unique in machining time. I have never heard anything negative about their bolt gun builds, but to go from $3500 to $5500 is a pretty big leap on shop quality. I have the rifle and have been running it for a season and it shoots great so I didn't have any quality issues with the smith who built it. There were some logistical and schedule issues but it was worked out.

Overall, my impressions are positive, and I just purchased a used rifle that is chambered in ATRS's .338 Improved and have a set of Ricks dies. I have always seen that Rick has been very helpful with people with the cartridge and very knowledgeable. I guess it comes down to what you are willing to pay for. ATRS always provides great service and usually has components in stock.

 

[Scotlas]

I will cast judgement when ATRS gets those darn pistol mags in!!!!

^^^^
+1 on this. I'd love to get my hands on a few of those mags. Ok, ok. Many of those mags.

 

[Old Friend]

I can't help but comment on this thread, although my comment is general and not directly related.

I am a long time automotive technician and own my own shop. I get kinda angry when those that are not on my side of the counter tell me what I should be charging for my work. I know my costs and I know my margins, therefore I know what I need to charge to keep my business viable and provide a living to my employees and myself. I run an honest shop that produces quality work and I do not feel I overcharge for it. I must stay current in regards to tooling, diagnostic equipment and training, all of these things have a cost.

I am in a highly competitive area and my door rate is on average, $15 to 20 an hour more than my competitors, yet I stay busy. Why? Because of quality. If I repair it, it is done to the best of my ability with top tier components. For that reason, customers refer others to me. Most know I am a little more expensive than others but don't mind because they know it is done right and they will have no headaches. This is one of the reasons that the City I live in farms out their difficult jobs to me...over $100K last year.

Sorry for the long post, but to sum up, a good business stands on quality and not price, I suspect this is ATRS' feeling exactly. People are free to go elsewhere if they like, just don't complain about my business on price alone. It is a far bigger picture.

 

[t_102]

^^^ Well said.

The success or failure is judged by the market, by the consumers.

However as a consumer, I feel like it is still reasonable to ask:
What are the features for such seemingly high price of the product compared to KAC or LMT? Maybe ATR can chime in and address this. I'm mainly interested in features such as anodizing type, structure strength, material uses etc etc. Especially moving parts such as bolt catch and magazine release. Are they made specially? Thanks!

 

[toomanyhobbies]

I can't help but comment on this thread, although my comment is general and not directly related.

I am a long time automotive technician and own my own shop. I get kinda angry when those that are not on my side of the counter tell me what I should be charging for my work. I know my costs and I know my margins, therefore I know what I need to charge to keep my business viable and provide a living to my employees and myself. I run an honest shop that produces quality work and I do not feel I overcharge for it. I must stay current in regards to tooling, diagnostic equipment and training, all of these things have a cost.

I am in a highly competitive area and my door rate is on average, $15 to 20 an hour more than my competitors, yet I stay busy. Why? Because of quality. If I repair it, it is done to the best of my ability with top tier components. For that reason, customers refer others to me. Most know I am a little more expensive than others but don't mind because they know it is done right and they will have no headaches. This is one of the reasons that the City I live in farms out their difficult jobs to me...over $100K last year.

Sorry for the long post, but to sum up, a good business stands on quality and not price, I suspect this is ATRS' feeling exactly. People are free to go elsewhere if they like, just don't complain about my business on price alone. It is a far bigger picture.

Perfectly stated!

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Really? Take a closer look at that picture of my lower with ADCOR upper. I have two of these. One with FDE furniture and one with black. In otherwords I have two HERA HLS full ambi lowers that say differently than what you posted. Ambi bolt release was installed when they came. I bought these a while ago now . They also come with a nice SS hex pistol grip screw. Excellent quality lowers. I did however have two and matched the best fitting. They are very tight but still a very good fit. I will say it might have not been as good if I wasn't able to pair them but still pretty darn good.

Also note they have a protective well around the left side mag release. Built full ambi from the get go. Basically the Magpul ambi mag that never went into full production. Plus the shape for the front of the magwell is nice for how it fits your palm if your hand is close to it. This is a very nice lower.

This is the HLS model not the non ambi you might be thinking of. It's not particularly common. In fact I have the first two in Canada. I bought them about a year ago now.

I paid slightly under $400 for each of my HLS lowers stripped but with ambi bolt release installed (that's how they are shipped). No set screws but also has nice bevelling, the built in placement for the left ambi release and a nice shape for the front of the magwell that fits your palm nicely when on the handguard but close to the magwell. 7075 billet like the ATR and Cadex.

I don't dogpile on ATR at all. Nice products. I've said that all along. But the price is out of line. The four lowers I seriiously considered with those uppers were Hera HLS, ATR, Cadex and KAC. People can buy what they want but don't you be upset when I don't agree with your opinion on value. Especially when I posted a pic of one of my rifles with a comparable much less expensive German made lower you claim doesn't exist!

You got one of the 'unicorns' then (when we were supposed to get a half dozen of them they shorted us on all 6 and said "not in production yet...." that was in Nov. last year, of course that could have changed), but still doesn't detract from the fact that just about every single rifle we had made needed fitting. Like the Raptor ambi charging handle (actually no charging handles at all, USGI, BCM Gunfighter) would fit into the one upper we had. As well probbaly half of the lowers the mag release paddle wouldn't fit. Even the forward assist in a couple didn't work properly because the roll pin hole was in the wrong location. If anything you got lucky your rifle went together without any issues.

When simply speaking about overall quality, HERA does not come close to ATRS. End of discussion. When my previous company built about 2 dozen or more of them, and 80% had fitment problems with standard parts (the barrels were shipped without gas ports..... oops.) that's an issue. I understand ATRS has had a couple oopsies in the past, but not nearly 80%. Probably less than 1%. I have heard of maybe 2 instances EVER of something defective or out of spec from ATRS?


So yes it's less expensive, but it is NOT in the same quality level as KAC, Cadex or ATRS. You could call me FOS if I didn't work for a major importer of HERA Arms stuff, but I won't touch any of their product anymore with so many poor experiences (and that even includes their Linear Comp that used to be on my rifle in the above picture)


I wouldn't say your dogpiling except that without exception ANY ATRS thread that comes up I have seen you come in and say their stuff isn't worth it, that they're price gouging or whatever. This is actually the first time I've said something about it.

I am not upset that you are not interested in ATRS, I completely understand if you don't like the price, the features, etc... but I believe the quality is worth it, I think they have so many little nice things about their lower that it's worth the price above some mass produced rifle in the USA.

 

[Epoxy7]

Old friend,

When someone asks about a company and or product on an open forum it's a lot different than telling someone how they should price their products. If this was on a dealer thread then that's one thing. A question was asked and he gets a response. If the owner wants to check in then they do so willingly and can either ignore it see if there is merit etc. But it's not actually for or to the business. It's a potential consumer asking others for their opinions. This isn't a dealer thread.

In the other thread I provided a link to a number of people including myself mentioned the premium wasn't just on labour or custom parts but also on off the rack parts. This would be a very short thread if the premium was just on the manufactured stuff. You're also paying a decent premium on off the shelf quality parts that don't cost them more than anyone else.

I voted with my wallet and made my choice. I don't feel I need to keep quiet about it because someone might not like it. I always reassess so if things change then so be it. I voted which way to go and have no issues stating why if asked.

F22-Raptor,

I've actually been pretty patient here. You didn't bother to notice the decent enough pictures I posted of a lower you later claimed didn't exist. Even now you read that I got one of the unicorns and was lucky it fit my rifle. Actually if you read the post I bought two of these non existent lowers and used them on two rifle uppers without issue. I also put all the parts together without any fit or quality issues. The quality of those lowers (note: plural) is excellent. I have seen ATR lowers and they are also excellent. The Hera was of the same quality. Considering I actually have the lowers you've never seen I think my opinion has some merit to it. It was $150 less and comparable in both quality and features although both have slight differences for features.

Someone asks on an open forum. I went through all the research and weighed all the pluses/minuses. I'm more than happy with my decision. If the Hera wasn't chosen it would have been the KAC while ATR would have been third.

There is also the insinuation from past posts and that other thread that those like myself who don't jump on the bandwagon can't afford the product. Not only is that an insulting argument but it's also often false. Anytime I see a hint of that argument it makes me avoid the product and people like the plague.

To the OP Look at the other thread or get complete prices yourself then make your own decision. I would recommend getting the full price before comitting.

 

[Old Friend]

Epoxy, perhaps this was all you needed to say then....

"They have some nice stuff but they sure know how to charge for it. Personally I found the prices to be very high and while nice looking stuff the value wasn't there for me. For others it may be exactly what they are looking for and don't mind paying extra for it."

 

[t_102]

A while ago I was debating whether to go ATRS or KAC. I ended up choosing KAC as it appears to be more recognized, easier to sell, and generally more features such as QD Sockets at the end of the reciever.

 

[Old Friend]

I was just wondering if anyone can give a positive review on Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply as i am thinking about buying a AR from them.

Was or was not this the OP's question? Sheesh. So you bought/built using KAC/HERA, instead of using ATRS, big deal, just answer the question!

From what I glean, ATRS is expensive, but good. Fair shake?

 

[t_102]

Was or was not this the OP's question? Sheesh. So you bought/built using KAC/HERA, instead of using ATRS, big deal, just answer the question!

From what I glean, ATRS is expensive, but good. Fair shake?

True. Let's answer the OP's question. IMHO only, I'd go KAC because:
1. Many KACs out there with excellent track record
2. Regarded as top tier even in the states where there are many many more AR15 users than here in Canada
3. Has features such as the QD socket at the end of receiver
4. Their logo is so damn ###y, I'd buy it just for the logo.

5. KAC lower comes with a VERY nice trigger. $200 resell value($300 @ retail)
6. Most importantly. KAC has been around for a long time. They had/have military contracts. They've developed things like the E3 bolt with Eugene Stoner (IIRC) etc etc. It seems like they "know their stuff" quite well. I'd give a slight edge to KAC for this.

I can't recall, but what trigger does ATRS come with, just for comparison sake?