Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply Any Good?

Old Friend said:
Epoxy, perhaps this was all you needed to say then....

"They have some nice stuff but they sure know how to charge for it. Personally I found the prices to be very high and while nice looking stuff the value wasn't there for me. For others it may be exactly what they are looking for and don't mind paying extra for it."
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I put a lot of thought into my two rifles and a number of people on this site provided excellent information which saved me a lot of time and money. So if someone asks I generally try to return the favour. If a person still choses a product knowing all the facts and alternatives going in then obviously it was right for them. However your posts smack of the keep them in the dark approach and let them fumble around without the info. Caveat Emptor only favours those who have something to hide.

Also frankly I'll say what I want. I don't care about your or F22-Raptor's approval. You take care of your own actions and I'll worry about mine. I appreciate Your "advice" about as much as someone trying to insinuate I can'tafford the product.

I feel the shill is strong here.
 
Old Friend said:
I can't help but comment on this thread, although my comment is general and not directly related.

I am a long time automotive technician and own my own shop. I get kinda angry when those that are not on my side of the counter tell me what I should be charging for my work. I know my costs and I know my margins, therefore I know what I need to charge to keep my business viable and provide a living to my employees and myself. I run an honest shop that produces quality work and I do not feel I overcharge for it. I must stay current in regards to tooling, diagnostic equipment and training, all of these things have a cost.

I am in a highly competitive area and my door rate is on average, $15 to 20 an hour more than my competitors, yet I stay busy. Why? Because of quality. If I repair it, it is done to the best of my ability with top tier components. For that reason, customers refer others to me. Most know I am a little more expensive than others but don't mind because they know it is done right and they will have no headaches. This is one of the reasons that the City I live in farms out their difficult jobs to me...over $100K last year.

Sorry for the long post, but to sum up, a good business stands on quality and not price, I suspect this is ATRS' feeling exactly. People are free to go elsewhere if they like, just don't complain about my business on price alone. It is a far bigger picture.
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OK so 15-20 bucks an hour more, roughly 15%-20% more then a substandard half ass garage. Very reasonable, you have built the business up, you have a couple decades experience.
How about this scenario. You have some experience working for a domestic garage, maybe even the same amount you have now. You decide to open up a shop and try something new at the same time, you decide to specialize in euro import diesel vehicles only. Not only that, you are so confident that you are the best euro diesel mechanic even though you haven't really got your feet wet or a client base yet, you decide your hourly rate is going to be 100-200% more then the other "average higher end garage" and even 25-50% more then the Benz/BMW dealer down the street that has been there for 20 years....
And your only sales pitch is "I'm the most expensive mechanic around, that means I'm the best".
That's more like what's happening here.
 
Epoxy7 said:
F22-Raptor,

I've actually been pretty patient here. You didn't bother to notice the decent enough pictures I posted of a lower you later claimed didn't exist. Even now you read that I got one of the unicorns and was lucky it fit my rifle. Actually if you read the post I bought two of these non existent lowers and used them on two rifle uppers without issue. I also put all the parts together without any fit or quality issues. The quality of those lowers (note: plural) is excellent. I have seen ATR lowers and they are also excellent. The Hera was of the same quality. Considering I actually have the lowers you've never seen I think my opinion has some merit to it. It was $150 less and comparable in both quality and features although both have slight differences for features.

Someone asks on an open forum. I went through all the research and weighed all the pluses/minuses. I'm more than happy with my decision. If the Hera wasn't chosen it would have been the KAC while ATR would have been third.

There is also the insinuation from past posts and that other thread that those like myself who don't jump on the bandwagon can't afford the product. Not only is that an insulting argument but it's also often false. Anytime I see a hint of that argument it makes me avoid the product and people like the plague.
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I did read that you had gotten two of them. And that you managed to get them both to fit. (or maybe they just happened to fit perfectly)

I am glad your lower has met your expectations for quality; and you think it is equal to ATRS. The stuff I have seen from HERA has made my decision to never purchase their product again. The HLS is made on the same machines that make the HCL, and the HCL+, and by the same people; so the quality between the HLS and the HCL series will be the same. Thusly I can say that the tolerances HERA Arms holds their upper/lowers to are not the same as a company like ATRS.

You were lucky on your fitment for both, or maybe HERA has actually started programming proper tolerances into their stuff? Who knows. (and the fact that your said the fit between the 2 on your Adcor upper was different is very telling, on the kind of machines HERA has they should be identical), and I truly hope you NEVER have any issues with your lower! Because if you do you will experience the exact same reasons why my previous company will never deal with them again.



Your opinion says they are not worth it: I understand.


Mine says ATRS is worth the price.


I am simply going to leave it at that! :)
 
Hitzy said:
OK so 15-20 bucks an hour more, roughly 15%-20% more then a substandard half ass garage. Very reasonable, you have built the business up, you have a couple decades experience.
How about this scenario. You have some experience working for a domestic garage, maybe even the same amount you have now. You decide to open up a shop and try something new at the same time, you decide to specialize in euro import diesel vehicles only. Not only that, you are so confident that you are the best euro diesel mechanic even though you haven't really got your feet wet or a client base yet, you decide your hourly rate is going to be 100-200% more then the other "average higher end garage" and even 25-50% more then the Benz/BMW dealer down the street that has been there for 20 years....
And your only sales pitch is "I'm the most expensive mechanic around, that means I'm the best".
That's more like what's happening here.
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Well, I would never try to specialize in a realm outside my scope of knowledge. Sorry if I stepped on toes here, it was not my intention.

I withdraw from this thread because there seems to be bigger issues than I am aware of. Be well everyone.

And frankly, Epoxy, I will say what I please as well.
 
So.....Anyone going to address the KAC that has a super nice trigger and QD sockets that comes with it?
 
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Old Friend said:
Well, I would never try to specialize in a realm outside my scope of knowledge. Sorry if I stepped on toes here, it was not my intention.

I withdraw from this thread because there seems to be bigger issues than I am aware of. Be well everyone.

And frankly, Epoxy, I will say what I please as well.
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Hey you tried to dictate to me where I should have ended my posts. That was me saying back off. As for saying what you want. Absolutely just extend the same courtesy to others. You pushed it I responded. Again I just ask the for the same coutesy.

F22-Raptor,

Fair enough and absolutely.
 
Same here. That reminds me of a sales person I once dealt with... I asked him a specific question and his sales pitch was "I've been with the company for 20 years and that's the one I would buy" I thank him and walked away lol.
 
mightyhunter said:
Same here. That reminds me of a sales person I once dealt with... I asked him a specific question and his sales pitch was "I've been with the company for 20 years and that's the one I would buy" I thank him and walked away lol.
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Even if it was said by Chris Costa or Travis Haley, I'd still ask for a well technical explanation.

But that's just me.
 
t_102 said:
Forgive me but if upper/lower fitments is what we're discussing, might as well bring in Norincos into the discussion. Those fitment is a must and doesnt even belong in a discussion about quality.

What I'm really curious is for ATR point out tangible improvements over brands such as KAC, LMT. For example, is the anodizing of higher quality? Are the receivers actually designed with structures that aids in strength or are they pure aesthetics subjected to taste? What about type of aluminum used, such as 7075?

Simply put: What does your product offer to the customer that other companies such as KAC or LMT cannot, thus the higher price? Remember, things like surface finish on those KACs isn't exactly "mediocre" to start with. Also, high wage shouldn't be a reason for charging the customer for more either.

As a smart consumer, these are the things I would look at when comparing brands, and not things like "made in canada" etc etc, Thanks!
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Just the facts that I know. Not talking money.

ATRS are fully machined upper and lower receiver out of 7075 t651 aluminum. They are fully ambi controls. The LPK from any north American manufacture will fit in with minor trimming of springs. If you buy a lower, ATRS will install your LPK at no extra charge to make sure the lower functions properly. The safety is tunable by the employment of a ball bearing and set screw. The ambi bolt release is the only proprietary part on the lower receiver despite the amount of people on here that think that's false. The lower receiver is machined to match/flow all the lines and radius of a forged receiver so you don't get that frankie look like some of the other billet receivers. The upper also pays attention to the detail of a standard forged lower (everything flows). The upper also accommodates the use of a BAD lever if you were to use a forged lower. Despite another myth, ATRS upper and lower receivers will mate with all forged upper/lower receivers based that they are with in a mil spec tolerance. The tolerances have simply been pushed to the upper end (upper receiver) and towards the bottom end (lower receiver). The mag well on ATRS is generously flared and wire edm cut to the top of tolerance to accommodate almost anything you can find on the market. The hole in the upper receiver that the carrier rides on has been brought to the bottom of tolerance to ensure that the bolt is perfectly centered (this is the norm for a accurate bolt gun). There is about 20% more material in an ATRS upper receiver than a forged upper, giving it more rigidity, helping repeatability. You can get custom s/n, custom fire markings and custom artwork done on an ATRS lower. The barrels are SS lilja blanks that are manually chambered and profiled to direct customer specs. This team is very proud of the product they produce and spend making sure its right. If you don't feel you got what you paid for, Rick will make it right with you. That's his character. That goes for anything ATRS makes, bottom line. I highly doubt you can find a more reputable dealer in Canada. Maybe equal, but not better. IMO, that's priceless. Does that answer the original question that started this post? I hope I don't get flamed for this because I didn't make one comparison.
 
^^^ Solonvan

I guess to recap the Pros for the OP, advantage includes:
1. Tunable Safety pressure with set screw (Quite handy for some like myself)
2. Flared and large magwell
3. Tight bolt carrier channel for more accuracy (??)
4. 20% more material in the upper for rigidity(look at Vltor MUR-1a too)
5. Custom serial number, custom fire selector logo/marking
 
An Atrs upper matched with the proper barrel configuration and match grade ammo is fully capable of sub .75 moa and usually under 1/2moa. I forgot one thing about the upper as well. The shell deflector is amazing at directing spend cartridges forward and down. It is awesome when shooting in an indoor range because your not getting hot shells in the neck that have bounced off the plexiglass. The shell deflector has also been made taller for use with subsonic 300 blackout. A lot of times with standard recievers, subsonic blackout doesn't even hit the shell deflector, coming back over your head. There is a lot of small refinements that make this an elite combination.
 
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solonvan said:
An Atrs upper matched with the proper barrel configuration and match grade ammo is fully capable of sub .75 moa and
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They all are. My Stag 6R has a .5 moa guarantee. I've been present when a Norc with the barrel free floated and a good trigger shot 5 rounds at 109 yards (100 metres) with a red dot and bipod. Ammo used was 55PMC bronze 223.
 
solonvan said:
Just the facts that I know...
There is about 20% more material in an ATRS upper receiver than a forged upper, giving it more rigidity, helping repeatability....
I hope I don't get flamed for this because I didn't make one comparison.
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The upper and lower receivers on the AR fow are cases - nothing more and nothing less.
The fact they have more material in them, the material used or if they are more rigid is moot from an accuracy perspective.
It really bugs me when people and/or companies indicate something they are doing is somehow providing an accuracy improvement over brand 'B' with an AR that snow everyone but the informed.
 
beltfed said:
The upper and lower receivers on the AR fow are cases - nothing more and nothing less.
The fact they have more material in them, the material used or if they are more rigid is moot from an accuracy perspective.
It really bugs me when people and/or companies indicate something they are doing is somehow providing an accuracy improvement over brand 'B' with an AR that snow everyone but the informed.
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Actually, one small correction if you don't mind.

The rigidity of the upper receiver actually helps very very slightly when your scope is mounted on the upper. When the gun is fired, the vibration between the scope and the barrel should be kept as low as possible for better next shot repeatability, therefore a rigid upper body may help. However, how much does it really help is beyond me. I may never be able to tell without many hundred thousands rounds of experience. Vltor MUR-1A is designed specifically for this purpose.

I'd spend the extra money buying a Geissele SD-E or Geissele DMR if you're after an accurate AR. You'd instantly be able to tell the improvements.

One major downside to Geissele triggers is that they reproduce quickly and positively in the gunsafe, and it's impossible to neuter them.
 
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t_102 said:
Actually, one small correction if you don't mind.

The rigidity of the upper receiver actually helps very very slightly when your scope is mounted on the upper. When the gun is fired, the vibration between the scope and the barrel should be kept as low as possible for better next shot repeatability, therefore a rigid upper body may help. However, how much does it really help is beyond me. I may never be able to tell without many hundred thousands rounds of experience. Vltor MUR-1A is designed specifically for this purpose.

I'd spend the extra money buying a Geissele SD-E or Geissele DMR if you're after an accurate AR. You'd instantly be able to tell the improvements.

One major downside to Geissele triggers is that they reproduce quickly and positively in the gunsafe, and it's impossible to neuter them.
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I know! :eek:

My S3G has tried to mate (thankfully unsuccessfully) with my USC45/UMP conversion, they're REALLY bad for that! :p
 
I read somewhere else *cough*cgs*cough* that they were willing and actually did engrave a swastika on a *new*build rifle...

Perhaps atrs can confirm or deny this rumor.
 
t_102 said:
Actually, one small correction if you don't mind.

The rigidity of the upper receiver actually helps very very slightly when your scope is mounted on the upper.
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A sighting system that is properly mounted to the rails of the upper, which in turn is properly mounted to the barrel will perform the same regardless of the type of upper used - be it 7075 series aluminum or what-have-you or run of the mill cast aluminum ones. Do some research - the USAMU have poured millions of rounds through ARs for decades - and they have the data to back up their claims. If 'it' worked they would utilize 'it' in competition.

The notion of a billet upper performing better compared to a 'mil spec' one or that it affords the rifle greater accuracy is preposterous.
 
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