I'm confused. Why is it "might as well use 1911 mags"? That doesn't get you unlimited capacity.
Why wouldn't a single stack single feed 30 round mag work for a run n gun style pump action?
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Almost nothing left in a 9mm Rifle
- Thread starter ArmedGinger
- Start date
Why wouldn't a single stack single feed 30 round mag work for a run n gun style pump action?
A single stack high capacity mag would be 2+ feet long and super unwieldy. There are Sten mags that have been converted from double stack to single stack to increase reliability and their capacity goes from 30ish down to 12 (I think it is) and nobody has claimed Sten mags are short and handy.
Even a double stack 30 round mag is long enough to make shooting off a bench or prone more difficult, a single stack would be impossible. Yes, you could make a 15ish round single stack mag work, but I'm not sure the effort is worth that gain.
Mark
30 rounds of 9mm side by side is under 12" (0.391x30=11.73). That means, according to you, you need more than a foot of extra space to make it functional?...
As you note, a high cap mag will be unruly prone or from a bench regardless of single or double stack. I'm not seeing that as a major issue for a run n gun pump action though? If you wanna shoot it from a bench, use a 10 round mag or whatever?
Here's what 30rds looks like, laid out beside a 32rd glock.mag with 10 in the mag and 22 on top to simulate a full mag. It's about 8.5" for the 32rd mag, and just shy of 12 for the single stack. Add a bit for the spring and you're looking at something like 13-14" for the single stack mag. Long? Yes. Too long? I don't think so.
I have 25rd 22lr mags that are longer than this glock mag...
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My 2ft estimate was very much a WAG. I think you would need more than a couple extra inches for the spring and follower but you would still get 30 rounds single stack in 15-16" max. I can't say if that is too long for some, but I would say anything longer than a 30 round STANAG AR mag is longer than I want to deal with.
You are correct that shooting off the bench doesn't really matter much for an action shooting gun, but prone might in some matches. I'll stick with double stack/double feed as my first choice for a project like this.
Mark
The spring for my 32rd glock mag only needs less than an inch of space. Why would a single stack need 4-5x as much?
The mag is longer, so the spring needs to be longer and I think the single stack spring won't be able to be wound as tight as the more square shape of the double stack allows for (but I could be wrong on that). Only way to know is try it and see.
Mark
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Only benifit of single stack is, you can make a narrower reciever.
You don't think there is an r&d benefit for not having to deal with ensuring reliable feeding from two positions rather than one?
That's where I was looking at it from. If we want high cap magazines, we need a proprietary mag. That means designing a mag AND a gun, rather than just a gun. Designing a new double stack mag and a gun to go with it feels like a lot more work than designing a single stack mag/gun, which in turn would mean a higher cost for customers.
But in the end I think the best option is to just use Glock mags...
This is why almost all double stack pistols use a single feed. It allows for narrower frame rails and minimizes the overall width and bulk of the gun, which are important in the US for concealed carry and even duty carry of larger guns.
You don't really need to design everything from scratch. On the pump action I am sketching up I am using an AR bolt head and general receiver dimensions in terms of pin locations, etc. This lets me piggyback on all the AR development that has been done and I copy the feed lip geometry from 5.56 AR mags for the new mag design. I'm sure there will still be teething problems, but I am not reinventing the wheel any more than necessary.
I expect a lot will feel this way and it has a lot of practical reasons going for it.
Mark
Ever seen a yard stick in school? Thats about what youre describing.
The star model a carbine used a single stack single feed magazine, its the curved one. 32 rounds.
Would be unwieldy to say the least.
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Bit of a difference between 16" and 36" but whatever...
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I cannot see any new company come out with a proprietary mag. Add cost trying to design something or it will just be 3D printed garbage.
Im working on improving the function of my 45acp. As I can reload it cheaper than 9mm.
Personally, its only aesthetics reason. Hate big goofy mags hanging out from under the gun. Even the 7rd mag is ugly.
Im working on improving the function of my 45acp. As I can reload it cheaper than 9mm.
Personally, its only aesthetics reason. Hate big goofy mags hanging out from under the gun. Even the 7rd mag is ugly.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
I agree with ye on that.
I've never bothered with the 9mm Para cartridge in a rifle. I preferred the longer 9mm Largo chambering in theSpanish Destroyer carbine that I hunted & plinked with for a tad past 20 yrs. Favorite load was hardcast 158 gr SWC bullets at 1000 fps.
I changed over to 45ACP in my LE build as its impact on critters be more effective.
Very nice. How long is the barrel?I changed over to 45ACP in my LE build as its impact on critters be more effective.
Mark
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
My one be a 14" Shilen barrel.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
You got the SIA mag adapter right? Do you got the spring loaded ejector?I agree with ye on that.
Spanish Destroyer carbine that I hunted & plinked with for a tad past 20 yrs. Favorite load was hardcast 158 gr SWC bullets at 1000 fps.
View attachment 982677
I changed over to 45ACP in my LE build as its impact on critters be more effective.
View attachment 982680
Only for the limited Canadian Market? Most places in the "free" world, with the exception being the US where there would be almost no market for this type of firearm (and a Canadian manufacturer would not likely be able to export to the US with tariffs and ITAR. Build them for Canada in Canada equals bankruptcy. Sorry to burst bubbles, this is our reality.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I think a 223 action could be converted. I mean ARs use the same upper and lower. For 223 and 9mm.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Yes on both. The spring plunger ejector I found to be a feeble device for clearing cases from the action. Still had to tilt the rifle to starboard a tad
to drop out the fired cases. No biggie to me as I never expected to use the bugger for fast shootin' sessions, just critter poppin' & plinkin'.
