And....I'm no longer a member of ISPC BC in good standing
- Thread starter Slavex
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Walter you couldn't be more wrong. As a shooter from ON l'm insulted by your narrow minded comment, we inON have many female shooters young and old and l have never seen any descrimination towards them.
I realize this moving away from the original topic but your comment really pi...d me off.
This is such a depressing thread, but let's recap:
1. Something happened at an awards dinner which offended some people.
2. Those people complained to the BC BoD.
3. The BoD wrote to Slavex informing him of their reaction/decision.
4. Slavex hired a lawyer and then politicized the matter here.
Even if the BC BoD acted incorrectly, it was Slavex who made this thing go viral. IMHO, he should've kept this thing private and only go public if the BC BoD refused to deal with him or negotiate over the matter. Slavex jumping the gun and involving lawyers and going public was a huge mistake.
My 2 cents.
1. Something happened at an awards dinner which offended some people.
2. Those people complained to the BC BoD.
3. The BoD wrote to Slavex informing him of their reaction/decision.
4. Slavex hired a lawyer and then politicized the matter here.
Even if the BC BoD acted incorrectly, it was Slavex who made this thing go viral. IMHO, he should've kept this thing private and only go public if the BC BoD refused to deal with him or negotiate over the matter. Slavex jumping the gun and involving lawyers and going public was a huge mistake.
My 2 cents.
The problem I see is very simple, and I'll save peeps the pages of posts to sum up.
1. Slavex posts images of match competitors with DQ certs (with permission from the recipients) From August 5th 2012 and someone is offended.
2. So instead of that individual messaging Slavex on Facebook with their reservations about the images, they go through "Official" channels and file a complaint.
3. September 12th (5 weeks later) IPSCBC BoD sends a letter informing Slavex of 2 year probation for "Unsportsmanlike conduct" during a match, and any disputing the board's course of action (regarding too harsh sactions or unwarranted) must be in writing. Sanctioned Match supposedly ends once awards are distributed and closing ceremonies are complete. (citing that the actions of the complaint were from August 5th, during the dinner/closing ceremonies.) The letter states that the BoD feels that the recipients were embarrased and somewhat shamed/humiliated about the DQ cetificates (even though they gave permission to post images???)
4. Slavex interprets written communication requirement as offical and as such uses legal representation to respond in official capacity to question the unilateral probation without being able to defend his actions or apologize for such. Asking for a copy of the complaint (if not the name of the instigator)
5. BoD Lawyers up and once again asks for written decision regarding sactioning/punishment for unsportsmanlike conduct (Accept it, Ask the BoD to reconsider, Written submission to lessen punishment)
6. Slavex Laywers a responces including the recipients of the DQ certs who were NOT offended, plus other similarly viened "humour" incidents at other national matches.
7. BCISPC laywer say what other provincal bodies do is immaterial to BC (remember the match was in Manitoba!) Suggested 2 year probation is now escalated to "No longer a member in good standing".
At no point in the correspondence from IPSCBC is there an option for Slavex to apologize for his actions, just to accept or argue the severity of the imposed punishment.
How does being put under suspension without any chance of explanation or apology work towards improving the sport? Take one for the team and sacrifice yourself or your own reputation for the one sided machinations of others in order to preserve the public face of IPSC? It doesn;t and putting all this on Slavex's shoulders is just wrongs. He may not be wholly blameless, but the IPSCBC BoD isn;t angelic in this event either... As to the improving the sport, even Slavex himself says to not take this incident as an example of the fun and comraderie that is present in IPSC across the country. If you all have issues with the event, communicate to your Co-Ordinators and perhaps even the BoD itself. While the support for Slavex here on CGN/Facebook is nothing short of admirable, you actually need to take action to enact positive change in the BoD's negagtive reactions. (Write/call/email/etc... an express your disbelief/displeasure/support/etc... at this incident in civil, but firm, wording.)
I know many people who shoot ISPC and IDPA and the variants between and in general 99% of those people are great sportsmen and help in growing their respective disciplines. I would hope that people see a few things while reading this.
1. Majority of shooters are supportive and passionate about their preferred discipline and thoroughly enjoy seeing their sport grow with new shooters who hopefuly love the sport as much as they do.
2. Even the most dedicated shooter can draw the ire of someone inadvertantly.
3. Sometimes upper echelons make bad descisions which effect the future of a shooter.
Slavex has been and hopefully will still be a passionate shooter who loves his sport, if not the administration of it. While I cannot say I would have done the same thing as Slavex in his situation, I can say that I respect him and his decision to lawyer up regarding this incident. I also respect the IPSCBC BoD's initial overatures, yet the successive actions and final outcome is not something I can agree with. (If you question our authority or methods, you are not welcome as an upstanding member of IPSC? Really?). I would hope that with everyone's input to the powers that be that something occurs which allows for a speedy and positive resolution to this entire incident for all parties.
For those who were not currently shooting IPSC but who were thinking of trying it, go and try it anyways, even if only for club-level events. You will find that the people are generally very friendly, supportive and outgoing. Same with pretty much any other shooting discipline.
Try it!
1. Slavex posts images of match competitors with DQ certs (with permission from the recipients) From August 5th 2012 and someone is offended.
2. So instead of that individual messaging Slavex on Facebook with their reservations about the images, they go through "Official" channels and file a complaint.
3. September 12th (5 weeks later) IPSCBC BoD sends a letter informing Slavex of 2 year probation for "Unsportsmanlike conduct" during a match, and any disputing the board's course of action (regarding too harsh sactions or unwarranted) must be in writing. Sanctioned Match supposedly ends once awards are distributed and closing ceremonies are complete. (citing that the actions of the complaint were from August 5th, during the dinner/closing ceremonies.) The letter states that the BoD feels that the recipients were embarrased and somewhat shamed/humiliated about the DQ cetificates (even though they gave permission to post images???)
4. Slavex interprets written communication requirement as offical and as such uses legal representation to respond in official capacity to question the unilateral probation without being able to defend his actions or apologize for such. Asking for a copy of the complaint (if not the name of the instigator)
5. BoD Lawyers up and once again asks for written decision regarding sactioning/punishment for unsportsmanlike conduct (Accept it, Ask the BoD to reconsider, Written submission to lessen punishment)
6. Slavex Laywers a responces including the recipients of the DQ certs who were NOT offended, plus other similarly viened "humour" incidents at other national matches.
7. BCISPC laywer say what other provincal bodies do is immaterial to BC (remember the match was in Manitoba!) Suggested 2 year probation is now escalated to "No longer a member in good standing".
At no point in the correspondence from IPSCBC is there an option for Slavex to apologize for his actions, just to accept or argue the severity of the imposed punishment.
How does being put under suspension without any chance of explanation or apology work towards improving the sport? Take one for the team and sacrifice yourself or your own reputation for the one sided machinations of others in order to preserve the public face of IPSC? It doesn;t and putting all this on Slavex's shoulders is just wrongs. He may not be wholly blameless, but the IPSCBC BoD isn;t angelic in this event either... As to the improving the sport, even Slavex himself says to not take this incident as an example of the fun and comraderie that is present in IPSC across the country. If you all have issues with the event, communicate to your Co-Ordinators and perhaps even the BoD itself. While the support for Slavex here on CGN/Facebook is nothing short of admirable, you actually need to take action to enact positive change in the BoD's negagtive reactions. (Write/call/email/etc... an express your disbelief/displeasure/support/etc... at this incident in civil, but firm, wording.)
I know many people who shoot ISPC and IDPA and the variants between and in general 99% of those people are great sportsmen and help in growing their respective disciplines. I would hope that people see a few things while reading this.
1. Majority of shooters are supportive and passionate about their preferred discipline and thoroughly enjoy seeing their sport grow with new shooters who hopefuly love the sport as much as they do.
2. Even the most dedicated shooter can draw the ire of someone inadvertantly.
3. Sometimes upper echelons make bad descisions which effect the future of a shooter.
Slavex has been and hopefully will still be a passionate shooter who loves his sport, if not the administration of it. While I cannot say I would have done the same thing as Slavex in his situation, I can say that I respect him and his decision to lawyer up regarding this incident. I also respect the IPSCBC BoD's initial overatures, yet the successive actions and final outcome is not something I can agree with. (If you question our authority or methods, you are not welcome as an upstanding member of IPSC? Really?). I would hope that with everyone's input to the powers that be that something occurs which allows for a speedy and positive resolution to this entire incident for all parties.
For those who were not currently shooting IPSC but who were thinking of trying it, go and try it anyways, even if only for club-level events. You will find that the people are generally very friendly, supportive and outgoing. Same with pretty much any other shooting discipline.
Try it!
I think that you need to relook at the course of actions.
Rob brought in a lawyer into what saw as an unwinable case, where rules had already been broken in his eyes. He has stated that he felt the probation term would be used to possible kick him out anyways.
He only publicised it when he felt there was no other recourse after several contacts with the board.
Sosa
After 25 pages this is still being debated! The issue seems to be pretty clear to me, lack of due process by the BoD, even to the extent of not even asking Slavex for his side of the matter. Unfortunately this is too typical of many volunteer boards, they sometimes seem to think that a minor position confers godlike authority.
I was reading this whole thread again while on the toilet and I thought, birds are funny creatures, then I thought if we could genetically engineer pigs to have wings and fly we could have open season for bacon, then I though if there is bacon flavoured dog food is it the same stuff they use for bacon bits? Then I thought why don't we just put dog food on our salad, then I thought I don't really like salad, I'd like a burger so I thought I could go to Dairy Queen and I could sure use one of those coupons...
For the win!
I have extras if you want one.....we DQ'd far fewer people at our Zombie shoot this year than I expected....lol
I concur.
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