angryness
- Thread starter moose_hunter
- Start date
Guys - seriously - Stow that kind of crap. Senior, that was a rediculous and inflammitory comment and has no place on this board.
And yes, senior, It is QUITE common to have more than one animal in front of you out this way. Last moose i shot i saw the cow first, then the calf, then a nice big bull come out behind 'em. I only had a bull tag so it was pretty easy for me to decide
But there are areas where you can have an open calf season and a cow LEH and have a choice to make. Once in a while a calf is so big that a hunter will think he's seeing two cows. And once in a while you've got two guys and one will take the cow first knowing the calf isn't going anywhere, then the other takes the calf.
But having discussed this sort of thing with CO's and the ministry a couple of times, the calf is the one they'd RATHER see you take.
The logic isn't too hard - a calf will consume a huge amount of food between now and when it's old enough to breed, Just like human kids and teenagers will eat you out of house and home compared to the average adult 35 year old. And is more likely to die before it gets to breeding age. Shooting the calf improves the amount of food available for the remaining calfs, and increases survival and health rates for the moose population in general.
Which is why there are open calf seasons in parts of bc, and i don't believe there's ANY open cow seasons, it's leh only as i recall.
I won't get into the morality of shooting a cow instead of a calf - i personally beleive that it's up to each of us to understand the biology behind the rules and make choices that are in the best interests of the animals - but who can say what was going thru this woman's head. So I won't wade into that debate.
But - three things occur to me.
1) - there IS sound logic behind taking the calf and not the cow from a conservation point of view.
2) - Letting a calf on it's own where it has a high risk to starve to death or die badly is less desirable than letting a cow moose walk away where possible.
3) - we DO have so many moose that often you can pick and choose ... sounds like you don't so maybe YOU could learn a thing or two from how we think about conservation.
I'd give that a bit of thought before commenting on how silly it is.
The way Ontario manages its moose is a joke. The system is set up to garner as much money as possible and nothing else. Why else would they offer a zillion cow archery tags and next to no bull archery tags. Because they know its hard to fill an archery tag with a cow but if they are for sale people will buy them.
Most other provinces have increasing moose populations. Quebec comes to mind. Ontario on the other hand doesnt even allot enough money to the MNR to get some flying done to get an estimate at the real numbers. they are using 10 year old estimates in some areas and running them through a simulation model built for a state in the US. (not exactley the same terrain )
No spring bear hunt, limiting wolf tags and areas they can be hunted in equals less moose. Not hard to figure out.
$4.3 million in moose tag sales alone and they cant afford to manage the wildlife properly...... .....gee I wonder where that money goes.
The fct they dont require hunters to report thier harvest at the end of the season is baffeling, but then again McsQuint would have to pay someone to man the phones when that money could be better spent increasing the funding to the ministry of arts and queers in the GTA.
Most other provinces have increasing moose populations. Quebec comes to mind. Ontario on the other hand doesnt even allot enough money to the MNR to get some flying done to get an estimate at the real numbers. they are using 10 year old estimates in some areas and running them through a simulation model built for a state in the US. (not exactley the same terrain
)No spring bear hunt, limiting wolf tags and areas they can be hunted in equals less moose. Not hard to figure out.
$4.3 million in moose tag sales alone and they cant afford to manage the wildlife properly......
.....gee I wonder where that money goes.The fct they dont require hunters to report thier harvest at the end of the season is baffeling, but then again McsQuint would have to pay someone to man the phones when that money could be better spent increasing the funding to the ministry of arts and queers in the GTA.
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canadian hunter312 said:well, how bout the fact that ontario is run by a bunch of goofs? so really, the west does sound alot better than ontario which is full of liberal dips**ts
Foxer, what about this comment?
I don't see you sanctioning this sort of "inflamatory" remark?
We certainly don't like the way the moose are managed in Ontario, but is this bringing us down as hunters because of it? I don't understand this sort of competition..... the province offers.... what it does and while we can improve the way oit is used,the potential is not "improvable".
This province is clearely divided in two separate regions and there's nothing to do about people from down South going to hunt in the North.
a bunch of well intented hunters that work in more or less urbanized areas in the South and have to travel around 1000 km to hunt in a terrain that is not familiar to them and in conditions that are not like what they have where they live.
Yes, it is true that the deer are more than abbundant in the south , but also true that unless you have land, you're hard pressed to find where to hunt.
So season coming, a whole migration begins towards the Northern hunting grounds, with many thousands hoping to get that moose. Are you wandering why ppl roadhunt?
Season after season, the scenic changes: washouts, fires or just someone else camping in your spot. We then travel to find another good spot, which by the way has changed a lot since 3 years ago,... we decide to dismount and "set camp", head in the woods (and I mean real dense woods) just to find out that after 3 hours of walking in the bush we're on another road again, which we could have reached by 2 more minutes worth of driving in the first place.
Maps are dated 1979, aerial photos are 2 years old too and the resolution of Google earth is crappy....
Working with all these, one hopes he is in the direct path of the "moving" and at the right time. And yes, I'd say the most moose I've heard of being hunted happened within 2km from a road or driving an ATV ot to a lake, dismount and shoot the dazzled animal which admires the marvels of technology.
I don't have an ATV and I try to "do my thing" in hunting <<with regards to my ethic>>, but to come out and bash on a whole province for hunting... that is uncalled for. Be it hunting bears over bait, the use of semiautomatic firearms, party hunting, roadhunting or whatever else comes up, some of the members need to cool down a tad and learn rather than speak (write).
The patronizing tone never hepled anyone and I don't see the reason we're constantly bombarded with all these.
- Location
- Lakes District BC
senior said:There sure must be a lot of moose out there so you can just pick & choose the one animal you want to shoot!!
Can't require much of a hunter to just walk out take what? an afternoon and pick one
More realistily, you have a tag for the animal in front of you, you may or may not prefer to shoot a cow but you may spend the rest of your hunt & go home empty handed if you let it go!
sounds like someone is just a little jelous that they cant seem to find any moose .......oh and YES I have walked away empty handed before and not cried about it, I see no reason to shoot an animal that just stands there and lets you walk up to it and blast it. and no I dont care if someone else does , but why waste 1 animal to have 1 ?
kinda like the goat hunts , they suggest NOT to take a nanny but I guess its your right and once there gone no one hunts goats hence the closures everywere , kinda like spring black bear out east.... didnt one of the papers state to many sows were being shot that had cubs ??? dam I see a growing trend , human nature of the untrained I guess, maybe its cause some of us live in the north and understand what we see daily , easy to have an opinion when you only leave the suburbs and freeways for a couple weeks a year
(and NO I am not bashing every city person alive but there are a few with this ITS MY RIGHT mentality and its gonna ruin it for all east/west/city or hicktown ! )I'm not sure it's so inflammitory - i think most ontarians here would agree mcguinty IS indeed a goof - and certainly many members have suggested the ministry in charge of hunting is pretty 'goof filled'.
That's a lot different than suggesting for example the people of ontario are goofs. Or that ontario hunters must be terrible hunters.
I have told everyone to knock it off - and i did mean everyone.
I have no idea where you're going with this - i didn't mention road hunting, i didn't mention anything about deer, and i certanly haven't been critical of ontario hunters.
I simply pointed out that there are sound principles behind the idea of harvesting the calf instead of the cow where possible, and that considering our moose population it might be wise to think about how we do things before suggesting that we're such poor managers of animals
But that's not a critizism of ontario - that's just pointing out perhaps you shouldn't be critisizing us (so to speak). I have no intention of having anyone slag hunters in ANY provinces - as i've said before when people have 'commented' on baiting bears.
Foxer, I must have not make myself understood. Only the first two sentences were addressed to you. The rest was a cry for the ongoing bashing of anything that is related to Ontario-style hunting.
Never intended to imply that you said any of those things. I agree with the wicked government we have, but we also have Bigredd, so there is a balance.... and hope.
Never intended to imply that you said any of those things. I agree with the wicked government we have, but we also have Bigredd, so there is a balance.... and hope.
Perhaps a bigger problem here is the fact the original poster went after the lady because she was "fat". When in the hell did we start putting animals before people. Especially when it was a legal situation. People first, animals second. Just goes to show the level of ignorance.
Jamie
Jamie
If she was, in fact, fat then it's a fair comment.
What, are you kidding me? What kind of rediculous comment is that? How is exercising intelligent choices in hunting NOT putting humans first? Do you think the fat lady was going to starve if she didn't shoot the cow instead of the calf or something?
Or are you suggesting that as humans we somehow are so superior that it's ok to hunt without any regard for conservation or the animals? Perhaps you miss the days of shooting bison heards from the train till they're wiped out?
Well, i see my more polite post asking people to knock it off didn't help - let me put it this way:
How about brains first, attitude second. Maybe you should give that a try.
I just asked people to knock it off with the personal insults, which are against the rules of the board. But apperently, you felt that the need to make stupid comments overrides the rules of the board.
Smarten up, or save me the trouble and just go somewhere else. If you feel the need to insult others whilst spouting daft ideas, i'd recommend running for leadership of the liberal party.
bone-collector said:
kinda like spring black bear out east.... didnt one of the papers state to many sows were being shot that had cubs ??? dam I see a growing trend , human nature of the untrained I guess, maybe its cause some of us live in the north and understand what we see daily ,
First grow up
Black bear spring hunt was cancelled by a Conservative Gov't
because one of Harris's major backers didn't like bear hunting. The press will say anything to sell newspapers & in case you didn't know! it MAY not all be absolute facts!
Maybe you living in the north gives you the advantage of time to be able to pass up game that's in front of you but maybe the FAT lady had to return to the city so her choice is take the animal or take nothing!
Maybe those of you that live in the north only understand what you see daily!
Leave it alone? I'll pass..and I do get the post. What I don't get is the fact that there were no report of alien visitations when they beamed you back to earthWrong Way said:Gitrdun: You havent been around long enough to know WHY he's getting this, and you wont "get" the post below.....so just leave it alone.
Moose hunter said: "We went back and got the calf"
All this means is that sometime in the next year we're going to see picures of a bear skull that he shot....it'll be a "small" bear though
Hey mousy....lets see a pic of this calf! Surely you'd have taken a pic of your first moose!
Also think about this: The calf had a 50/50 he'd survive. You just made damn sure it had a 100% chance of NOT surviving (bullets have that effect)
Feel guilty?
LMAO.
..... ahrrr ahrrr ahhr (you're supposed to take that as a joke)
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- Location
- Lakes District BC
yes poor senior I promise to try and be nicer to you when you promise to try and be smarter !
I am not picking a fight north and south nor east and west , and yes I did read that sows were being shot on a gov site somewere quite a while back just out of curiosity as to there foolish reasons for closing the season and even if its 100% pure bull, its still there, thats all not as self defence in a argument with you
and I would like to know if you say well this lady maybe had to go back to the city , hunting time was up, was the moose going to attack her? would she starve to death without it? is she dying and will never hunt again ?
realy now farmers sell beef all the time and most of that time its a 1/8th of the cost of a hunting trip , hunting is something many of us do and take serious but at the same time if we walk away empty handed oh well it was an experience and time spent well with good friends , I am sure I wont die this winter without moose , although its 100x beter than beef no doubt ,
and I would hope that those who live in the areas people hunt would understand what is happening to animal populations , especialy when you see it daily , and when you notice that there is a rather low number of any animal over a long period of time and try and let folks know but they insist it there right so to hell with you attitude, well I guess its a lost battle, maybe we should leave it alone and to hell with conservation, let them come up and shoot whatever they can, then when its closed down we can all suffer lifke fools and wish we had made better choices, hindsight is always 20/20
so please continue on with you comments although not well thought out or rational they are mildly amusing
I am not picking a fight north and south nor east and west , and yes I did read that sows were being shot on a gov site somewere quite a while back just out of curiosity as to there foolish reasons for closing the season and even if its 100% pure bull, its still there, thats all not as self defence in a argument with you
and I would like to know if you say well this lady maybe had to go back to the city , hunting time was up, was the moose going to attack her? would she starve to death without it? is she dying and will never hunt again ?
realy now farmers sell beef all the time and most of that time its a 1/8th of the cost of a hunting trip , hunting is something many of us do and take serious but at the same time if we walk away empty handed oh well it was an experience and time spent well with good friends , I am sure I wont die this winter without moose , although its 100x beter than beef no doubt ,
and I would hope that those who live in the areas people hunt would understand what is happening to animal populations , especialy when you see it daily , and when you notice that there is a rather low number of any animal over a long period of time and try and let folks know but they insist it there right so to hell with you attitude, well I guess its a lost battle, maybe we should leave it alone and to hell with conservation, let them come up and shoot whatever they can, then when its closed down we can all suffer lifke fools and wish we had made better choices, hindsight is always 20/20
so please continue on with you comments although not well thought out or rational they are mildly amusing
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senior said:
OK, so I get where you're coming from now. I'm from the city and only can turn my cell phone off for a few hours.... so Phuck conservation...I'm getting what's mine ..... if I don't, somebody else will, and I'm not going home empty handed.
Thanks for giving us your stance Senior.
280_ACKLEY
Ok - hold on a second boys. You've gone off on some weird tangent.
There's Nothing wrong with shooting a cow. That's not what the original post was concerned about. I'd pop a cow by herself in a heartbeat if it were legal and i had a tag. There wouldn't BE tags if the ministry didn't think a few less cows was a good idea.
The problem here was the cow was attended by a calf. And now a choice is going to be made over WHICH animal to shoot.
Again - you've completely veered away from the whole discussion senior. The fat lady had two legal animals in front of her. One was a cow, one was a calf. She was going to go home with an animal - that's not the issue.
The issue is that she chose to shoot the cow. The question is - was that the right choice?
I mentioned to you that I was in a position where i had a bull, a cow and a calf in front of me, all would have been easy enough shots to make. Lets imagine i have an antlered AND an antlerless tag with me. In what order would i likely shoot the animals?
Do you think i'd start with the cow? My preference would likely be bull, second choice calf, and final choice cow. And I can explain why.
I think the fat lady should have taken the calf. It's almost the same amount of meat, and it's a better choice from a conservation point of view.
If there had been no calf, i'd have dropped the cow too. But there WAS a calf - so now you get to make an intelligent decision.
We're hunters for heavens sake - we're not just killers. It's expected that we will exercise good decision making in the feild and make ourselves knowledgable about the animals we hunt and care about their conservation.
There's Nothing wrong with shooting a cow. That's not what the original post was concerned about. I'd pop a cow by herself in a heartbeat if it were legal and i had a tag. There wouldn't BE tags if the ministry didn't think a few less cows was a good idea.
The problem here was the cow was attended by a calf. And now a choice is going to be made over WHICH animal to shoot.
Again - you've completely veered away from the whole discussion senior. The fat lady had two legal animals in front of her. One was a cow, one was a calf. She was going to go home with an animal - that's not the issue.
The issue is that she chose to shoot the cow. The question is - was that the right choice?
I mentioned to you that I was in a position where i had a bull, a cow and a calf in front of me, all would have been easy enough shots to make. Lets imagine i have an antlered AND an antlerless tag with me. In what order would i likely shoot the animals?
Do you think i'd start with the cow? My preference would likely be bull, second choice calf, and final choice cow. And I can explain why.
I think the fat lady should have taken the calf. It's almost the same amount of meat, and it's a better choice from a conservation point of view.
If there had been no calf, i'd have dropped the cow too. But there WAS a calf - so now you get to make an intelligent decision.
We're hunters for heavens sake - we're not just killers. It's expected that we will exercise good decision making in the feild and make ourselves knowledgable about the animals we hunt and care about their conservation.
- Location
- Lakes District BC
and here I thought samson had issues with the gravy
- Location
- Lakes District BC
tomato/tamato , either way hes rubbing it on ruperts back
