Anschutz 64R Tactical Trainer 64R AND 64MPR

Canadiankeeper said:
let the weight of my head nestle the rifle into the bags bringing the cross hairs to the appropriate point. (The center dot is point of aim)
Click to expand...

Hey CK~it's been a busy couple of weeks for me so I'm only reading the most recent pages of this thread this morning. Something jumped-out at me, though, the comment ^ about the "weight of your head" on the stock. Reason is this~I hand load .223 (heavy barrel/heavy rifle) and after extensive load testing, have it sorted to the point where I can achieve 1/2 MOA or less when I do my part, and not let too much time pass between range trips. I used to find this accuracy very easy to achieve, now it feels like work so I've been really trying to eliminate variables. One thing I USED to do is rest my right cheek, rather, hold it firmly there with some natural downward pressure from the weight of my sizable coconut. I came to realize that when it SEEMS like different amounts of pressure are applied, differing levels of accuracy are the result. When I reduce the amount of pressure to almost zero, I'm more mindful of trying to be consistent in spite of it being a slightly less comfortable hold. This has resulted in greater consistency, greater accuracy, etc. Not sure why, when it used to seem that any hold/any rest would result in accuracy that would have me patting myself on the back all the way home! lol Age maybe?

Canadiankeeper said:
horseman2 said:
Cabela's had Federal Match 922A on last week for $13.99 per box. This is made to R50 standards.
While testing ammo the R50 was 0.79 and the Federal was 0.76 at 100 yards.
With a coupon I got 11 boxes for $149.95 after tax (You need the 11th box to get over the $150 threshold for the coupon to kick in.[/QUOTE

The premium target was abysmal
Click to expand...

^Interesting, and I think it highlights the question of "expectations" with rimfires. A super-grade rifle that only shoots caviar-grade ammo well might be a great arrangement for some shooters. For me, I like the idea that great accuracy is achievable with that stuff, but acceptable accuracy using field-grade ammo is equally important. Arguably, more. Now, "acceptable" is totally subjective but for me...under about 3/4" @ 50 yards, which translates (roughly) to good gopher-level accuracy @ 100 yards. Not everyone's sensibilities, but they are mine when it comes to .22s.

FLHTCUI said:
Ck, thats a nice looking Annie you got there and the targets or ''down the rabbit hole as you say'' is addicting to say the least ;)
On a serious note , save the timmies for after a day of shooting.
I am an informal .22 shooter who is happy with his accuracy with plain vanilla AE Hollow points for shooting gophers and shooting dimes and nickles at ranges of 20 to 50 yrds in the gravel pit.

We found that drinking coffee while at the range caused enough jitters to affect consistent positive results...this is all informal deduction on my part and shooting buddies opinions.

It does play a part in the misses is all I am suggesting.

From CZ to an Annie, thats a big jump and thanks for sharing.
Rob
Click to expand...

^I saw the Timmies cup and thought the same thing, however, who among us doesn't need a coffee or two to get the motor running? lol Kidding aside, I actually DO think it negatively impacts my shooting if I have more than 1 coffee in the morning and I'm shooting less than an hour after I finish it. I also know that fatigue plays a roll too. Not really how tired you are/aren't when you get to the range, rather, fatigue FROM shooting. I don't have any range close to me, so when I do make the drive...I want as much shooting as possible. Invariably, I few flyers while I settle-in/relax...things improve about 20 minutes in...I shoot very well for about 1-2 hours...then things start to open up a little. I do allow cooling time, this is with different guns/calibers, barrels never allowed to get hot, etc. etc.

So yes...I think I used to be luckier than I am now or at least, used to be a slightly better shooter. Now, I think/over-think/compare/study targets more than I ever did and work harder to achieve the same results. I guess I'm wondering a few things about the TT, namely, if you think the barrel is broken-in....whether or not you've cleaned it yet, whether or not you've run a good volume of any 1 ammo type just for fun (and to take the pressure off)...that sort of thing. I think familiarity/comfort level (no matter how nice the gun) breathing, trigger control all need a little time. Were that rifle in my greedy little hands :) I'd probably be shooting pop cans, shotgun hulls, casual targets at 50-75 yards for the heck of it, until it feels like second nature. It's been my experience that great results with one rifle, even a "lesser" one can leave a guy feeling like he can shoot any rifle well. I had an experience with a Cooper rifle, which I couldn't shoot 1/2 as well as my Savage .223 that cost less than 1/3 as much. I eventually got that one shooting well, but it took some time. More than I'd hoped.

Anyhow, I hope you're sticking with the TT. I can't imagine it's a rifle that doesn't shoot very well once you have some significant trigger time with it.
Click to expand...
 
grauhanen said:
my comments were addressed with regard to the OP and they reflected my own experience with my Anschutz rifles -- that is, all the ones that I have had. I'm saying that I've found my Anschutz rifles to be relatively unfussy with match quality ammo. If decent ammo was used they performed decently -- all of them, including 64 actions and a Flobert II.

Of course there remains the possibility that the barrel is a dud, and that the results shown in the first post were misleading about of the rifle's potential.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's just your comments came across as being dismissive of the possibility the barrel could just simply be picky about the ammo. It is a very plausible possibility, which requires much more ammo testing on the OP's part, he's hardly scratched the surface of all the high end offerings available, let alone different lots of the same type. Consider yourself fortunate to have had relatively little issue with what you feed most of your rifles, I've also had a couple that shot pretty well most any decent ammo decently with of course a certain preference for one type or another.

It's much too soon to entertain this rifle being a dud, and I have some other thoughts after going back and reviewing the first target the OP posted, though it seems he has removed the target showing the vertical stringing shot right after those good groups. First, was his rest setup and I already commented on that needing to be addressed before further assessing the rifle's accuracy. Now he has shot a fair volume of ammo through the rifle and hasn't made mention of his cleaning practice. Were it my own rifle, I'd be having a good look at the chamber/leade area with my borescope for carbon fouling or lead buildup. This area tends to be a little rough after the chambering and can rapidly build some nasty fouling in a new rifle. It's not the bore that needs to be "broken in", especially in Anschütz rifles that have undergone their super secret "finishing" process, but the chamber and leade, since the "finishing" is done prior to chambering. A very thorough cleaning with special attention to the chamber area before his next range trip would be my prescription, and I mean go to town on it. Scrub, scrub, scrub with a brush, let it soak overnight, and scrub some more the next day. Shoot Center-X as the first ammo of the day, and I wouldn't be surprised to see accuracy come back.

I noticed on post #34 update, that his bottom row of Center-X started out with two back-to-back groups in the 0.2's, then opened up to a 0.56", then 0.8's. Perhaps the rifle just got fouled up at this point? I'd also suggest bringing cleaning gear to the range and if this is observed again, give the rifle a brushing on the spot and see if accuracy is restored. It's good practice to bring a torque wrench to the range as well and periodically check the action screws, my Savage MKII was notorious for loosening up after shooting a couple boxes of ammo.

Yeah, there are many things to keep track of and we can only try our best. When I plan a serious day testing out a new rifle I've got many ammo types, cleaning gear, borescope, torque wrench, chronograph and even shim material if I think trying a barrel support pad might be necessary. Sometimes you just need to hammer out 500-1000 rounds through a new rifle before it settles down and you can really start the process of ammo testing and dialing it in. I sense a little impatience from the OP in this regard ;)
 
RabidM4U5 said:
...When I plan a serious day testing out a new rifle I've got many ammo types, cleaning gear, borescope, torque wrench, chronograph and even shim material if I think trying a barrel support pad might be necessary...
Click to expand...
I'm going shooting with you from now on...if you bring all that, I'll bring the ammo...
 
Haha, I will try to hit all points here.

Tried some eley club, wouldnt give me 1/2 at 50.

Nordic is out of stock of all "sampler packs" so I went with a very highly recommended ammo from what seems everyone. Midas +, a brick should be here mid week next week.

The initial posts did show some very good initial results.

The midas Center X is still the best ammo, but the issue with it is that in the picture... 3 in one hole, then 1/2 inch away 2 into another hole...

I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but many on the range have seen me punch 1/2 inch groups at 100 with various rifles... Some had seen me punch below 1/2 inch groups at 50 with a different 22...
My friend who initially got me into shooting has acknowledged I have surpassed him and taken it to a whole different level.
I know I can shoot, I know when I pull something. I know when I have had a good shot or a bad shot before the hole appears.
(Pics are in the thread of some other rim fire results with "lesser" rifles)

As for cleaning, the rifle seems to always give me a good first group. I have given it two good cleanings. Once when I first got it, once after the 500 round point... (I then went and tested Eley club and sport, neither gave me the results I want)

I have yet to start playing with torque of the action screws, I usually try to find a good load first then fiddle with that.
It took my 223 rifle from .700's down to .400/.500 but tuning the torque on the action.

Took the vertical spreading down because in the latest round of testing you can see it very well as well as a post specifically about it in more detail with shots labeled.
You can see them very clearly in the targets.



So far this entire experience has made me want to jump down further into the rabbit hole and get a 50BR annie lol ... Need to make this one shoot first though.
 
I would try a different shooter under the same conditions. I couldn't believe how much better Tom E Gun shot my own mpr better than I can.He got an average group around 2.4 inches. Would help narrow down any issues. I know some day's I'm on fire .Other day's I can't hit worth a crap.
 
Without having read through all the comments I'll make a couple points. My guess is the most likely culprits are either the scope or the bedding. You've got a crossfire II on there still? Have you tried a different scope with it? Or at least tried that scope on a different rifle since to ensure its not the issue?
And as unlikely as it seems given its an anschutz, with the type of accuracy issues your experiencing I'd carefully examine the bedding and look for any spots touching the barrel and set the action torque with a proper inch pound torque driver. How is the action laid in the stock? With bedding and pillars?
 
savagecanuck said:
I would try a different shooter under the same conditions. I couldn't believe how much better Tom E Gun shot my own mpr better than I can.He got an average group around 2.4 inches. Would help narrow down any issues. I know some day's I'm on fire .Other day's I can't hit worth a crap.
Click to expand...

Already tried that, with 3 other shooters. (one being bulls eye staff, who promptly said "what the hell happend?" when a fly'er ruined his group lol )

mikeystew said:
Without having read through all the comments I'll make a couple points. My guess is the most likely culprits are either the scope or the bedding. You've got a crossfire II on there still? Have you tried a different scope with it? Or at least tried that scope on a different rifle since to ensure its not the issue?
And as unlikely as it seems given its an anschutz, with the type of accuracy issues your experiencing I'd carefully examine the bedding and look for any spots touching the barrel and set the action torque with a proper inch pound torque driver. How is the action laid in the stock? With bedding and pillars?
Click to expand...

Have no tried the scope on other rifles or any other scopes on this rifle. Brand new scope, i would hope its not the issue.

The barrel is no where NEAR the stock... hard to tell from the crappy cell phone cam... Easily 2mm or more from the barrel to the stock for the entire length.

Have set action screws to 30 with a proper torque driver.

No bedding.

View attachment 103031
View attachment 103032
 
Last edited:
Rimfire is all about ammo and consistency. Shooting something going 2000fps plus is way easier than something going 1000fps. The longer barrel dwell time will magnify any shooter error. With that said from my experience, and most top dogs in the u.s.a. Eley Tenex is top shelf.

I had a full custom built by Bill Calfee on a Anschutz 54.18 action. I had 5 different lots of Tenex to test (among other brands) and the results are surprising. 4 out of the 5 lots would do roughly 3/4 inch at 100 yards. That one magical lot would do .3 consistently at 100. This is with no tuner.

After testing I ordered a few bricks of that lot and it shoots crazy in any rimfire I own. Some guns like a certain machine number and some like a certain velocity or both. I seem to remember someone saying stock Anschutz like machine #2. My majic lot is 1056 fps.

If you find stellar ammo you better stock up as it sells fast when the shipments come in and guys start testing. Also what lots/speed shot well one year might not the next if the dies wear or get replaced. Its a never ending struggle with high end rimfire.

All the info is on a Tenex box. The machine number, date made, fps.
 
Canadiankeeper said:
When the match ammo of 22 cost the same as 17hmr. Ill take the one with better ballistics
Click to expand...

Quality of ammo past 50 yards will still be your achilles heel, gunna see some wild velocity variation with that .17HMR stuff. When it's consistent, it's darn accurate, but it is not often consistent. Oh how I wish the Europeans made some good .17 HMR ammo. My money is still on match grade .22 LR for 100 yard accuracy.

Too bad you're giving up on the rifle already, did your brick of Midas + even arrive yet? If you're anywhere near Niagara region, PM me and I wouldn't mind meeting you at a range one day to have a look at the rifle, borescope it, and I've got pretty well most varieties of match ammo that could be tried in it.
 
SO!

A inquisitive buyer put me on this track! I never really looked at the original target.

Turns out it is displaying the same characteristic. With the vertical spread.

Contacting the business where I purchased it from to see what can be done.

Add has been taken down! lol

Photos of the origonal target, clearly showing the issue I am having... (so those who doubted my shooting and thought I was the problem can take a hike! lol)


 
As far as I'm concerned a proper pillar bedding is essential to accuracy in just about any rifle, mostly this type, my MPR 64 didn't shoot worth a crap out of the box, but after I fixed it up, no problem.
Second thing, any scope even brand new out of the box, even on a .22lr, can be a bad scope.
The issue you're having there is not ammo related, nor ammo fixable.
I'll never run crappy cheap bulk ammo through a match rifle, always good match ammo, lapua or eley.
 
SND said:
As far as I'm concerned a proper pillar bedding is essential to accuracy in just about any rifle, mostly this type, my MPR 64 didn't shoot worth a crap out of the box, but after I fixed it up, no problem.
Second thing, any scope even brand new out of the box, even on a .22lr, can be a bad scope.
The issue you're having there is not ammo related, nor ammo fixable.
I'll never run crappy cheap bulk ammo through a match rifle, always good match ammo, lapua or eley.
Click to expand...

Trust me, ive been trying lapua and eley match grade ammo to no avail. Just have to keep playing.
 
So, got the word back! Id like to thank Nordic for their phenomenal customer service! Always super quick in getting in contact with me. I have never had an order go wrong or ever been disappointed by them!

My group is not some some odd ball group. The target passed the accuracy test! So my rifle should be able to do this! lol
(18mm Is the required group size, I didn't catch the distance. I wonder with what ammo ?)

Basically I need to keep trying ammo out and one will be what works.

The brick if Midas + should be here in a couple days then back to the range. I was also recommended in playing with the torque settings...

I generally find an ammo the rifle "likes" then tune in the torque settings. Is that how the rest of you do it also?
 
NVShooter said:
oooh...hopefully lotsa potential buyers not reading this thread. Really enjoyed reading all the postings here. Hopefully a similar thread for the next...
Click to expand...

Not selling now, even if i was I would direct them to this thread. 100 open and honest about everything I sell on here!

The thread lives for now! I think it has also brought out a lot of good info up into the form for everyone to benefit from.

I like doing this kind of thing so people can see and experience with out the sticker shock! lol I always try to read as many reviews about rifles before I buy, so I like to thump them out for others also!

I may not have a lot of info to give, but a lot of the very helpful members here do and I get to stumble through it all!

ELEY TENNEX AND X ACT are on deck after midas +
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom