- Location
- Stoughton, Sask
Great news! I sold my xcr-m because I wanted one of these when they become available Will be interesting to see it ...
Any Plans for a .308 AR? MAJOR UPDATE MAY 8 2014
- Thread starter LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1
- Start date
This thread reminds me of General Motors. No, no we make what we make and you'll like it. What do you mean no one is buying our junk? What do you mean the customer demands choice?!
Please ATRS make a reciprocating handle or forward assist optional, with an optional dust cover. I'll find the money to buy one if you do.
Please ATRS make a reciprocating handle or forward assist optional, with an optional dust cover. I'll find the money to buy one if you do.
Really? Because short of DPMS AR along with S&W AR economy lines I'm hard pressed to come up
with semi auto rifles that don't have a dust cover. Pretty much every semi auto has a closed cover over the receiver when the action is closed. The STG and AR are the exceptions that require an external port cover that isn't built into the receiver. You don't see the SVT, SKS, AK, anything HK, FN etc etc etc. None of them have an open port where dirt/dust can hit the bolt and enter the action while the bolt is closed.
But hey what do I know. Maybe dirt and grime are good for reliable semi auto functioning. Especially in an accuracy rifle with match grade tolerances. If it's a range only rifle I agree it's not an issue.
If there is an economy version then that's cool. It would be good to have a rifle like this at a price point most could afford.
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Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
The AK cover is the safety/ selector. When off safe you can stuff small animals behind the bolt carrier.
Without seeing the rifle, why speculate? There's a difference between a bolt carrier group (Which is what the FAL, SVT and SKS use to keep dirt off the bolt) and what most people would define as a dust cover built outside the receiver. Given ATRS's track record, I think we can tentatively assume that they know what they're doing.
I think it is safe to assume they will do their best, but that doesn't mean they know what they're doing.
uncledillers
Regular
- Location
- Comox Valley
Yeah your probably right. They should probably stop all planning and hand all design aspects over to you. Because the way it looks like this project is heading, if they dont put on the features that you want on this rifle, then they probably will not sell a single rifle.
I can see it now. Thousands of target grade, large caliber, semi-auto, nonrestricted rifle all sitting on the shelf unsold. And Rick crying to himself, "if only I listened to Navycuda, and put a dust cover on it"
No actually it's a separate plate that connects to the BCG. It is often referred to as a dust cover. CZ858, SVT40 etc. The newer designs such as PE90 etc they have dust covers connected to the charging system so when that bolt is closed the ejection port is sealed. Again it's not actually part of the BCG and is clearly designed to protect the inside of the action and BCG from crud getting inside.
The current leading target rifle in semi auto is the AR design. Again if only for target conditions, the range or other fairly clean environments then the dust cover doesn't matter. The less expensive AR rifles designed for that purpose often lack a dust cover along with forward assist. But the price also tends to reflect this as these are the economy models.
The forward assist has been debated for years. I have two Canadian AR10 DND rifles that don't have a forward assist. Currently however almost all of the DM style military rifles seem to have the forward assist along with it being standard on accuracy models for 308 target use. Although I suspect this has as much to do with economy of scale along with customer wants/expectations more than anything.
The reason you see people wanting these feautured is the simple fact the ATR rifle is said to be non restricted and an accuracy firearm. They want to use them off range, travel by quad, truck, hike through bush, coyote or gopher hunt in dry dust, hunt in wet forest etc etc. These firearms will be used in a country that has extremely varied climates and is harsh on rifles. If they just want a good target semi for range only then the AR is the answer.
It should be noted that the ADCOR AR15, not only has the traditional AR/STG style dust cover but alsohas an automatic secondary dust cover/wiper attached to the BCG which blocks the port when the bolt is closed. These are one of the nicer AR15 rifles yet are very overlooked. Their uppers are very well done.
As for knowing what they are doing with regards to ATR. That's a lot of confidence for something new they are attempting. Robertson Arms did this and many aren't sure they have it right yet and that was the second such rifle they designed then built. If you said Colt, FN, etc know what they are doing then yes they have a proven track record. Yet even those companies have dropped the ball on occassion. So that's a lot of confidence in a small shop. I'm afraid I'm a realist and have no blind faith. I'll reserve judgement for the final product. I'll be excited to see it and truly hope they hit a home run but I'll remain objective.
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Navycuda makes some good points. Although I don't know him personally I do know from his posts and other firearms he owns that he actually is a potential buyer. It seems fair game to me for him to voice his wish list and sugestions as it seems this is being put on the possible buy list.
Thousands of rifles... If the product doesn't live up to expectations or the price is insane then sales will likely be small. My main worry is price. I've been critical of the pricing on other ATR products. I've seen all the justifications on why ATR products cost more. In some cases justified but in other cases the off the rack parts were also much more expensive. I even received the if you can't afford it.. Or it's beyond your means arguments. In reality the price was high. Very high and I went a different direction. It was clear then that the business plan was to try and create a boutique high end brand that sells lower volume at a higher price. If I'm right and this new product is under the same business model then any number of issues could sewer it. Price too high, lacking features, design or performance etc etc. The lower the price the more compromises people will overlook. But if high priced and not delivering what the consumer wants the it's realistic that many may sit on the shelf.
ATR is taking a big risk here. I have to give them credit for taking something like this on. Again I truly hope it's a sucess. Potential customers like NavyCuda posting on this should be viewed as a very good thing.
As usual, good points to which I agree with as well.
I have to add that expertise with precision bolt actions doesn't necessarily translate to semi autos, as more variables are present. (I do want to emphasize that I do wish ATRS well with their endeavor). We'll just have to see the final product....
I should have replied to this earlier, but hopefully this will illustrate my problem and explain why I want to see a robust charging handle.
Some of the reloads for my BD44 ended up being slightly oversized, not all of them, but some of them. Even with the robust tilting bolt/wedge system of the STG, it took me smashing the whole weight of the rifle against the charging handle to remove the oversized cartridge. I don't have enough experience with the XCR to know if the charging handle is robust enough to withstand that kind of abuse, but the one of the STG most certainly is. On the AR, I've had a similar problem (you might see a growing trend that I don't turn my dies down enough), and there is no way the charging handle will take that kind of abuse, but the forward assist will. The brass is soft enough to close the bolt and then either try to extract it or take a chance and fire it.
Now I imagine I'm not the only person in Canada who hasn't turned his dies down far enough and I bet a good portion of ATRS's customer base reloads. It would be nice to have some means of mechanically overpowering the action while shooting verses having to box the rifle and take it apart at home with proper tools.
Ejection port cover and forward assist are both features I'd want on a rifle I may hunt with. Ejection port to keep debris/dirt out (which is why virtually every AR has one) and forward assist to seat the bolt if I need to ride the charging handle to minimize noise.
I will admit that I haven't gone through all 378 posts in this thread, but has Rick made it clear what niche this rifle is to fill? I seem an assumption that folks will be trekking this rifle through the bush, this based on the fact that it'll be non-restricted. But why make that assumption? There are tons of guys and gals who can (or are forced too due to where they live) to ONLY shoot at range, or don't hunt - of course private range or shooting spots on crown lands would mean the rifle would seem some harsher conditions, but REALISTICALLY, will that be 20% of his base or 80%?
If Rick believes that only 20% of his customers for this particular rifle will be using it elsewhere than at a range, then perhaps he's willing to deal with that risk and mitigate it later down the road on a V2 model and only concentrate on precision AR10 customers for now?
If Rick believes that only 20% of his customers for this particular rifle will be using it elsewhere than at a range, then perhaps he's willing to deal with that risk and mitigate it later down the road on a V2 model and only concentrate on precision AR10 customers for now?
