Anyone *actually* killed a bear with a shotgun?

[Wrong Way]

I've been packing a 500 with a couple boxes of 000 buck for bear defence. Seeing all this talk about slugs makes me wonder my choice of a ammunition.

I never considered taking slugs along. If it ever came down to shooting, my aim might not be good enough to land any slugs (the fresh crap in my pants might spoil my aim)

My original plan was to imitate a CIWS with the 500/buck combination. Bad idea?

Heres my loads: 7 1/2, Slug, 000 buck, 000 buck, 000 buck.

The 7 1/2 is great for when a grouse flushes, and if I'm surprised (close range) by something that wants to eat me......a face full of 7 1/2's will buy you lots of time to aim your second (slug) shot. The bear can't get you if it can't see/smell you.

If the bear is far enough away, you just jack out the 7 1/2 and you are good to go with the 1+ OZ sledge hammer. If he keeps coming, the buckshot will increase your odds in a hurried situation.

 

[northwoodslivin]

how accurate would a slug be through a 28" mod 870 barrel? it is a super magnum.
I am reading that most use between 14-20 inch. I would like to take mine with me while out fishing this year as the bear population is growing uncontrolled here.

 

[jjackman]

You can easily kill a bear with slugs and they can be fairly accurate even out of a smooth bore shotgun. I can easily hit a milk jug at 60 yards with my Defender and it's 18.5" barrel.

One shot to the chest, lungs, heart, liver are going to drop a bear at close range. Hell, I've killed a bear at 200 yards with a 300 grain bullet that's going about the same speed and its not as big. I use 3 slugs and the balance 00 Buck in my camp gun. If I can hit em with the first 3 slugs, the buckshots for me.

 

[Gatehouse]

Salvo

Buckshot is an incredibly poor penetrator compared to slugs.

At close range, buckshot doen't have a wide enoug pattern to noticeably increase hit potential over slugs.

At longer ranges buckshot doesn't have a dense enough pattern to really work well.

Shot to the face for a "first" shot so you can "follow up " wiht a slug makes no sense. Why not just hit it in the face wiht a slug and kill it wiht the first shot?

Pleanty of bear defense threads int he Hunitng forums. Do a search, they are fun

 

[Brutus]

Northwoodslivin, only practice at a range can tell you this in advance.
Bring a variety of slugs, (ensure to first and foremost,read the manufacturer's recommendations)and plenty of each, and find out on paper targets.

 

[northwoodslivin]

I agree Brutus. I just got it in December, and the weather is still crappy here so I haven't have a chance to try slugs through it yet.

What would be your recommendation for good slugs through this 28" Mod choke 870 smooth bore barrel?
I've got some Federals I picked up thus far.
This is a very informative thread, excellent topic!

 

[Calum]

Last weekend I watched a guy using an old (full choked) Browning semi auto 12 gauge and a 3" federal slug, get within an inch of a beer can at 100 yards.


Now consider that Bear defence is closer, more like point blank - 50 yards...

 

[Brutus]

Brenneke, for ever and a day has stated that there Classic Brenneke 2 3/4 inch slugs ( with the felt wad screwed to the base) easily veiwable in the link that Gatehouse has gratefully posted....is safe to shoot in any choke. That being stated and known, your only question should be, actually how accurate they are out of your modified choke.
Certainly would be prudent to know your maximum effective range, with any slug choice.
I have a high opinion of these German slugs, they have remained virtually unchanged, since about 1924 or thereabouts!

That being said by me, Herrero, the writer of many bear defence books advocated the Federal slugs highly. You may already have in your possession, your best option.

Good luck to you....

 

[Wrong Way]

Shot to the face for a "first" shot so you can "follow up " wiht a slug makes no sense. Why not just hit it in the face wiht a slug and kill it wiht the first shot?

You need to read my post again. Why do I have 7 1/2 in first? Cause it sucks having to cycle through all the slugs and buckshot to load one in for that grouse. And the chances of me running into a grouse is far more likely than running into a bear.

Now, with the 7 1/2 first, *IF* I happen to come nose to nose with yogi (I mean step's out 5-10 feet away close) An ounce and a quarter of 7 1/2 delivered to the front end of said bear will buy me enough time to cycle for the slug, and blind it at the very least. If the bear is further away (read: I have time) it's easy to cycle the 7 1/2 out of the way and chamber the slug.

 

[northwoodslivin]

So I take it as a generalization for slugs, the shorter the barrel the more accurate?
I was led to believe the other way around, but maybe I am wrong? Or is it that the shorter barrel is preferred because it is easier to move around/target/lighter?

what is the best style of slug to put through a smooth bore barrel? sabot?

 

[Brutus]

You are a braver man than me Wrong Way, because I woul hate to have to try to remember which load is where, in a life or death scenario.

I might try hop-scotch with buck and slug, but not birdshot and other ammo.

Cudos to you, if you can keep this straight 100% of the time.
just my opinion my friend....
Regards to barrel length, the shorter barrels tend to be stiffer hence more accurate, but one must remember you do lose velocity out of shorter tubes. Once you get to a 20 inch or shorter barrel that can be very very handy in close bush.
This can be a life saving factor.
Now the kicker is at finger poking range of tooth/claw who cares, except who can get thier gun into action fastest to save your life, so what gives you a better chance my friend?

PS sabots are for rifled shotgun barrels, if you stick to sabots, and sabots only of your brand that is fine.

But when you are in Wawa Ontario on a Saturday evening and need to replace lost ammo, what are your chances of finding "Brand X Sabot" at a Ma & Pa local store???

Sabots? probably not, brennekes? probably not, winchester or federal? probably.

Anyways I have typed too much, I have some experience, but not alot compared to others here.

 

[road warrior]

My brother shot one from 20 feet with buck shot and it flatened it.

 

[Wrong Way]

One thing to remember re: birdshot. At 5 feet you are essentially shooting a slug anyway. The shot charge hasn't even left the wad at that distance. Next time you are at the range, try shooting a 4X4 with a slug at 5 feet.....then do the same with an upland load of 7's.....what the 7's will do will shock you.

At "up close and personal" ranges, you don't have to remember whats loaded...you just have to remember to pull the trigger. Its at the longer ranges (20 yards or more) that a slug really shines.

 

[Gatehouse]

You need to read my post again. Why do I have 7 1/2 in first? Cause it sucks having to cycle through all the slugs and buckshot to load one in for that grouse. And the chances of me running into a grouse is far more likely than running into a bea

r.

No, I odn't need to read your post again, I see why you do it. It's not very efficient for either grouse hunting or bear defense, but to each his own.

Now, with the 7 1/2 first, *IF* I happen to come nose to nose with yogi (I mean step's out 5-10 feet away close) An ounce and a quarter of 7 1/2 delivered to the front end of said bear will buy me enough time to cycle for the slug, and blind it at the very least. If the bear is further away (read: I have time) it's easy to cycle the 7 1/2 out of the way and chamber the slug.

You are taking 3 risks-

1) You are taking the chance that your 71/2 will make the bear react the way you want it to- and animals are pretty unpredictable

2) You are risking that for whatever reason- high stress/damaged shell/dirty gun/whatever- that you jam your gun and don't get your defense ammo into play.

3) You get confused about what load is what, since you have 3 different loads in the shotgun, and/or the bear doesn't do what you want it to do when you have the appropriate ammo for that situation. (such as distance etc)

When I grouse hunt, I use O/U 20 guage, wiht 2 barrels of #6. I have some slugs on the belt loop, on my right side, always my right. so I can acess quickly.

I don't consider this *ideal* for bear defense, but it's pretty good for grouse, and at least if I need to do somethign abotu abear, I know for sure what load is going to be in the shotgun and what it can do.

To each his own.This has been hashed out many times in the past.

 

[northwoodslivin]

Wrong Way.

I don't have a problem with what you use. I will probably go along those lines myself.

Gatehouse,
If your gun jams in the first place, then I wouldn't be taking it out in the bush
Secondly, I don't know how fast you can bang off 4 rounds but I can do it in under 6 seconds. Therefore, who cares if he has #7 shot in there, 7 to the head and that bear will be blinded, correct? followed up with a slug, that bear is toast.
Your method of slugs on your belt.... that takes time, what happens if you happen to turn around and mr bear is running at you? I think you would be in trouble in your situation.
Too each their own I guess.

 

[Gatehouse]

Wrong Way.

I don't have a problem with what you use. I will probably go along those lines myself.

Gatehouse,
If your gun jams in the first place, then I wouldn't be taking it out in the bush

My guns don't jam, and neither do yours. However, things have been known to get out of hand, and there has been more than one person to short stroke or jam his unjammable pump shotgun under high stress conditions.....

Secondly, I don't know how fast you can bang off 4 rounds but I can do it in under 6 seconds.

Well, I can shoot a bit faster than you, but that doesn't matter. What matters is how fast you can shoto compared to how fast a bear can close on you. And remember, you are shooting at a bouncing bear, while coming TO you. You may ONLY get one shot. You want that to be birdshot?

Therefore, who cares if he has #7 shot in there, 7 to the head and that bear will be blinded, correct?

In a perfect world, perhaps. Or maybe he misses the face and hits the shoulder. Slug+ shoudler = bear in a world of hurt. Birdshot+ shoulder = angry bear.

Liek I said, in high stress situations, things have been known to get out of hand.

Your method of slugs on your belt.... that takes time, what happens if you happen to turn around and mr bear is running at you? I think you would be in trouble in your situation.

Like I said, that's when I am grouse hunting and it's hardly ideal for bear defense. But you can only do what you can do. It's a very ideal method for grouse hunting, however...

If I am carryign a shotgun for bear defense it's loaded wiht Brenneke slugs. In high stress situations, keeping things as simple as possible is a good plan.

Mixing up ammo, carrying 3 differnt types of ammo, in hopes that you have the perfect bear plan all figured out, and that you can predict what the bear is going to do -and at what range- and then trying to adjust your ammo when things go differently than planned.....well, that is pure folly.

 

[northwoodslivin]

Good points Gatehouse. I am not trying to argue with you, please understand that. Your probably far more experienced then I am. I just want to be as safe as I possibly can, because I have many bears where I live and while out on my property grouse hunting, I know there are bears there because I see their purple #### from all the blueberries they eat lol.

Under my situation, I have small bear/moose trails branching off my road into my property, I tend to walk my road for grouse up in the dogberry bushes or out on the road getting gravel. There is also a spot where I fish on my property where there is no warning if a bear we're to come up from behind me. So this is why I would like to have my #7 chambered with slugs to follow. I don't care if I piss the bear off if it is charging me, I have a pretty good shot, I will blind him or seriously injure his face likely pointing him in the other direction, if not a slug would follow with in a second after.

as I said. I am talking about my environment and the possible situations I face. I wouldn't have time to load a slug, it would be game over "if that bear wanted to kill me" before I had the chance to load and rack a slug.

I am sure under your conditions, maybe your more in the open, but for me. Bear caution is in the high ranking, heavy bush, lot's of blueberries=Be ready just in case.

EDIT: also with our winter up here this year, there have been lots of times where it warmed up in the high 40's-50's and while out SNOWMOBILING! I have seen mother bears and cubs walking down the trails. I think the bears are going to be pretty aggressive this year due to lack of hibernation and the early and abrupt winter we had. Just my 2C

 

[Neo]

I know that "slugs" is the usual answer, but myself I've come to really appreciate what a 3" load of 00 buck can do when the target is close -- which, really, it has to be for a "bear defense" situation to exist at all.

A few years ago, my hunting partner arrowed a bear just before dark. We elected to retrieve it in the morning. But at about 1 AM, it started raining pretty hard, and we crawled out of our tent thinking we might be better off trailing the bear by lantern light before the blood trail disappeared.

We drove back to the scene of the crime, and picked up the blood trail right away -- even in the rain, there was blood everywhere. Based on the sign, we were quite confident of finding that bear dead within 50 feet of where the trail began. I had never seen an animal leave that much of a blood trail before -- it was literally painted on the ground and trees.

Seventy or eighty yards into a tangle of old spruce and willows, we still hadn't found the bear, but the blood sign remained strong and obvious. Then we came upon an opening about 30-40 feet across, filled with grass about 2 feet high.

Leaving out the exciting parts, I immediately found myself in great need of rapidly discharging the shotgun I had prudently brought along. The range was about 20 feet, and the shot was head-on and slightly quartering. The result was devastating -- the buckshot spread into a group about 3-4" across the front of the chest and angled into the offside leg/shoulder. The bones were absolutely pulverized, and every single one of those pellets punched a whole through the hide on their way out. That bear was dead before it hit the ground.

Lots of lessons learned on that trip -- namely:
1) Lots of blood doesn't necessarily mean a dead bear (in this case, the arrow hit was too high -- above the lungs and just under the spine)
2) Never, and I mean NEVER, try tracking a bear at night -- even if the rain is threatening to wash out the blood trail.
3) In a defensive black bear shooting situation inside 15 yards, a shotgun loaded with buckshot is very hard to beat.

 

[Hudson Shooter]

I have had the luck of having to dispatch a large number of bears inside city bountaries and most were not in the best of moods and the only firearm used was a Rem 870 and slugs. All were one shot kills. As I could not have any running away from where I had them pinned down. Also on courses for bear defence this is the the recommended load/gun (shotgun)

 

[Wrong Way]

OK Gatehouse, so....you and I go grouse hunting up here at one of the tree farms/berry patches. You have your O/U loaded with 2 #6's, and I have my pump loaded 7's, slug, 000 buck. A bear decides to try and make us lunch....we have 5 seconds to react and empty the gun into said bear, In your opinion, who's better equipped?