Anyone *actually* killed a bear with a shotgun?

northwoodslivin said:
uh yeah. That is enough to tell me it is a very dumb idea.
What is the sense of doing this anyway. :confused:
One member said they used wax with shot, now that makes more sense to me as it would be a solid projectile such as a slug exiting the muzzle. Cutting a hull though...bad idea me thinks.
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We agree on cutting the shell. I'm not so sure about putting wax in with the shot without knowing what the added weight of the wax is and what affect that might have on pressures. I'd also want to see if the wax and lead combination actually worked to hold the shot together. I also wonder if the wax would melt due to the friction caused by going down the barrel and/or the generated by the powder.

I've never tried any of this and have no intention to. When I need a slug I always have Brennekes close at hand.
 
That trick of making bird shot into slugs is used in Ireland, as they can't get slugs...they use them in single, and doubles that is.

The last thing I'd want is to use an experimental round that make plug up the barrel during a Bear defence situation. :rolleyes:
 
a brenneke slug... that is a rifled slug with just a fancy name correct?

What would be the best slug to use in my smooth bore 28" rem 870 barrel with a mod choke? I am thinking Sabot simply because it is a smooth bore. Suggestions?

I have yet to put a slug through my new 870 Express so I am asking now.
 
Claybuster said:
We agree on cutting the shell. I'm not so sure about putting wax in with the shot without knowing what the added weight of the wax is and what affect that might have on pressures. I'd also want to see if the wax and lead combination actually worked to hold the shot together. I also wonder if the wax would melt due to the friction caused by going down the barrel and/or the generated by the powder.

I've never tried any of this and have no intention to. When I need a slug I always have Brennekes close at hand.
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I am thinking the lead would push through the wax in this condition, wax is lighter then lead right? not to mention the pressure yes.

Out of both situations, I think they are both silly. No, I have never tested eather of these "come on I am asking about it, that should answer that lol" but I don't think I would be stupid enough to test it in my 500+ dollar shot gun. I will stick to slugs.

I don't even know why this was brought up from the get-go for bear defense, just silly. Get the proper slugs for your barrel me thinks.

I agree with you 100% Claybuster.
PS I love busting clay myself :D
 
Nope. Sabot slugs are made for rifled barrels, because the rifleing in the bore spins the projectile causing it to stabilize (same concept as rifles, which use smooth projectiles). Shooting shot out of a rifled barrel causes bad patterning and leading (lots of lead deposited in the barrel due to the grooves shaving bits off the shot). Smooth bore shotguns have nothing to stabilize the projectile, so rifled slugs (with spiral grooves just like a rifled barrel) must be used to cause the projectile to spin, thus stabilizing. Smoothbores with rifled slugs are much more versitile because you have no troubles shooting shot or slugs out of them, while rifled barrels and sabot slugs tend to be more accurate. Shooting a sabot slug out of a smoothbore will give you horrible accuracy and probably tumbling (the projectile going end over end instead of a perfect spiral) because there is no rotation from lack of rifling.
 
The safety of ringing a shell is subjective. It will work in an open choke gun. Does it raise pressure? I suspect it must but, the base of the projectile is open, so I think the shot column will lengthen allowing for the reduction in diameter from the chamber to the barrel.

A bigger problem is if the crimp opens up and the hull ends up stuck in the barrel. Repeat shots in a single barrel gun are not advised without a visual check for an obstructions.
 
northwoodslivin said:
uh yeah. That is enough to tell me it is a very dumb idea.
What is the sense of doing this anyway. :confused:
One member said they used wax with shot, now that makes more sense to me as it would be a solid projectile such as a slug exiting the muzzle. Cutting a hull though...bad idea me thinks.
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First this is not a bear defence thread!
They asked if anyone killed a bear with a shotty!

Dumb idea! Maybe!! but cutting the hull (almost right thru) at the wad is a much better idea than shooting a bear that wouldn't leave the area of my kids with an uncut 7 1/2 shot load :rolleyes:
Perhaps I should have cut a spear instead :rolleyes:
The results on a 150 lb bear as I said was spectacular..BANG...FLOP.

I neither condone nor recommend it, but my fav shotty is an old Ithica chopped to 20" for partridge:) (no choke)
I have done this a few times at the range just to see what would happen & let me tell you at short range results are spectacular!
 
Has anyone successfully gotten permission to -carry- a shotgun for bear defense ? The local conservation officer told me there is no way he or anyone he knows would give permission. Plus, even if you're using a shotgun for deer and have only slugs, he'll charge you if you don't have your shotgun plugged to two shots (+1 in chamber). I asked him why do we have to have it plugged if we're carrying only slugs- I don't think I'll be pinging much waterfowl with slugs... he said he doesn't know why but that's the rule so he'll charge you.

He also said a shotgun for bear defense is useless anyway, since you won't get a shot off. I asked what they use, he said an 8-shot shotgun. I asked him if it's plugged to two shots... he said: "No."
:rolleyes:

I guess I'd just use a bolt or pump rifle... less hassles. Wouldn't want to use a shotgun with slugs with more then two in the mag !!!!!omg!!!!
 
What...is he gonna charge you with using lead instead of steel because you have slugs too?
Your CO needs to get his head out of his arse. You can carry. You are not limited to 3 (you are limited to five if a semi-auto). You do not need permission to carry. The only time the three shell rule applies is if you are hunting waterfowl. Man stuff like this pisses me off.
 
Each province is different and you must check local regulations:

For example in Nova Scotia any shotgun used for hunting, be it waterfowl or upland game or big game, I believe has to be plugged for two only in the magazine.

But in Saskatchewan, if you are hunting waterfowl, it must be plugged to the same, however if you are hunting deer in the Saskatchewan shotgun zones, the provincial CO's do not care if your shotgun is unplugged for deer hunting only.
 
Brutus said:
Each province is different and you must check local regulations:

For example in Nova Scotia any shotgun used for hunting, be it waterfowl or upland game or big game, I believe has to be plugged for two only in the magazine.
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It is the same in Ontario. Magazine plugged to two in the magazine, one in the chamber for all game whether furred or feathered.

Wrong Way said:
Heres my loads: 7 1/2, Slug, 000 buck, 000 buck, 000 buck.

The 7 1/2 is great for when a grouse flushes, and if I'm surprised (close range) by something that wants to eat me......a face full of 7 1/2's will buy you lots of time to aim your second (slug) shot.
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In Ontario, this is a violation of the hunting regulations.

Also the use of shot larger than #2 can be a violation depending on location, other open seasons at the time and the absence of a proper tag for the seasons in question.

The moral of the story is don't depend on the Internet for legal advice. Find out for yourself from the people who actually know.
 
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Buckshot vs Slug

I once shot a nuisance bear, maybe 200 lbs at 25 paces with 00 buck. The bear stood up facing me when I fired into its chest. He fell over and just as quickly was up , chewing and slapping at a sapling. The second round hit him behind the front shoulder in the boiler, again, I was close enough that the impact smashed the bear to the ground...however, I could hear growls and teeth clicking, dirt flying for a couple minutes before he expired. That was with an 18" rifle sighted cyl choke pump. After that experiance, and having relied on tales of how devastating buck shot was, I tried it on a fig 12 tgt at 25 yards. I was lucky to hit the tgt with 3-4 pellets per shot. Having said that, it was a cyl choked 12ga. Do the same with a mod, or full with 00 and the results are far better. Since then, I have shot several small and medium blacks with Rem and Win slugs, usually through the shoulders, and they all dropped on the shot.
As far as I know, at least here in BC, if the shotgun has rifle sights(ghost rings included) and you are using single projectiles(slugs), in a pump, load her up. And I thought that, that case law originated from Ont..not sure though.
 
gak said:
Has anyone successfully gotten permission to -carry- a shotgun for bear defense ? The local conservation officer told me there is no way he or anyone he knows would give permission. Plus, even if you're using a shotgun for deer and have only slugs, he'll charge you if you don't have your shotgun plugged to two shots (+1 in chamber). I asked him why do we have to have it plugged if we're carrying only slugs- I don't think I'll be pinging much waterfowl with slugs... he said he doesn't know why but that's the rule so he'll charge you.

He also said a shotgun for bear defense is useless anyway, since you won't get a shot off. I asked what they use, he said an 8-shot shotgun. I asked him if it's plugged to two shots... he said: "No."
:rolleyes:

I guess I'd just use a bolt or pump rifle... less hassles. Wouldn't want to use a shotgun with slugs with more then two in the mag !!!!!omg!!!!
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Let's get a couple of things straight from the get go. It is not up to a provincial CO to give you permission to carry a defensive firearm. He has no more authority to give you "permission" than I do. There are still a few things we can do in this country without running to a cop and asking him if it's OK. This of course does not mean you can carry a defensive firearm in areas closed to firearms, but on private or crown land there is no requirement for permission to be armed with a non-restricted firearm. I don't go out in the cold undressed, and I will not go into bear country unarmed.

I have faced dangerous bear situations on numerous occasions, both at work and at play. Some of those situations resolved themselves, some were resolved with a firearm. In some of those situations I was tired or day-dreaming and got myself into problems. But if you are alert to your surroundings you are much less likely to be surprised by a bear. Apparently the CO you spoke to has very little real world bear experience. If you kill a bear in defence of life or property, I hope he isn't the guy you have to report it to.

As for the shotgun being plugged, that is just silly. Shotguns used for shooting migratory birds must be plugged, but the intention of the law is not otherwise. Any jurisdiction which has a law to the contrary needs to have that law challenged.
 
Boomer said:
As for the shotgun being plugged, that is just silly. Shotguns used for shooting migratory birds must be plugged, but the intention of the law is not otherwise.
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True but laws vary. In Ontario the magazine plug law or other hunting regulations do not apply if you are not hunting. Where I live I cannot hunt with a rifle caliber over .275 but I can use whatever I want for defense of property. If I'm shooting clays in my backyard I can put in as many rounds as I want.

Your are also right that no one needs permission from a CO to carry a gun in the bush and the CO quoted in the earlier post was talking out of his ass.

The confusion may lie with a poster who claimed to put a light bird load to shoot grouse backed up by buckshot in the event he stumbled over a bear. That's definitely hunting and his gun should be plugged if he's in Ontario.

If not hunting the gun doesn't need the plug but a CO who finds you in the bush with a gun might conclude you were hunting unless you could demonstrate otherwise.
 
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