argument between glocks or 1911 POLL

[sixty9santa]

Good one IM_Lugger, but those who state that revolvers are pistols need to be educated, or at least spanked :lol:
I do agree that the you can't compare steel to composites however, comparing handguns as a whole, regardless of materials, is doable.
I believe the original intent of this was to compare a Glock to a 1911 in the same price range.
Not a $800Glock to a $3000 1911. If that were the case, the 1911 wins hands down.
Don't forget that 1911's are chambered in different calibers just like Glocks.

Peckerwood:
One can also rightfully state that the two handguns in question were designed for the same thing: DEFENSE. In fact the historical core of all handguns are for defense, even .22's. (professional hitmens choice for years)

 

[Bartledan]

pistol is a pistol and a revolver is a revolver, no ifs ands or buts.

well alot of people will tell you that revolvers are pistols too, hows that for ifs or buts? :wink:

Nice rebuttal! I'm convinced!

How do you even compare 1911’s to Glocks I just don’t get it… :? 1911 is more of a style than a model with a dozen of makers coming out with different models from Norinco to STI, not to mention the price ranges. Now Glock is made my Gaston Glock - one company.

Other than being handguns, they have nothing in common; like comparing pickup trucks to race cars. :roll:

If you want to compare apples to apples compare Glocks to HKs or XDs or Sigmas, at lest they have something in common…

But 1911 VS. Glock yes it’s about personal preference, because they are two completely different guns... :wink:

Sorry, dude. I don't know how much more simply I can break this down.

In the set of all possible uses for a semi-auto handgun, either a Glock or a 1911, or indeed a Sig, Beretta, HK, S&W, you name it, will work.

That makes them very much the same thing.

Duty weapon for a police officer? Glocks and 1911s are both used.

Agency gun? Glocks and 1911s are both used.

Sidearm for soldiers? Glocks are used (in Austria) and 1911s are, I think used in the US, or at worst were used recently.

CCW arm? Glocks and 1911s are both used.

Target shoting? Glocks and 1911s are both used, thought he 1911 has the clear edge.

Competition? Glocks and 1911s are both used.

So yeah, their mechanical details are different, sure. But to focus on that and insist they are somehow light years apart is just plain silly. It is ridiculous to say "aside from the fact they are both pistols, they are completely different." Yeah, and aside from the fact they are both 1911s, Colts and Kimbers are completely different. Aside from the fact they are both Glocks, G17s and G22s are completely different. Yeah, aside from the fact that they are virtually identical, they are completely different. Do you see the nonsensicality of that argument, yet, or am I shouting down the well?

"Aside from the fact they are both pistols, they are completely different." Is a completely bankrupt and silly argument.

 

[IM_Lugger]

sixty9santa, Well according to (any) dictionary a pistol is a small hand held weapon. Which includes automatics and revolvers and any other type of gun that fits the category.

Bartledan, Are you trying to defending 1911, is that what you’re doing? ‘cause if so you can stop since I didn’t say that Glock is a better gun…

Now as for duty weapon Glock is probably the most common used police gun in North America. Who even uses 1911s these days?

Army. US drooped 1911s 20 years ago (in ‘85) and switched to Beretta 92. And as far as I know Canadian troops use BHP and not 1911.

Army’s and LEO’s standards greatly prefer a DAO or DA/Sa guns over SA.

Agency. Again Glocks, some special ops teams may use 1911 as their ‘secondary’ weapon. Not to mention that they work in teams.

For CCW pretty much any gun will do (Including revolvers)…same for target shooting and competition. Here in Canada we pretty much limited to target shooting when it comes top handguns, so I guess it doesn’t really matter if you get a 1911 or a Glock. But does that make all handguns the same? I doubt it...

I don’t get people what ask question like what gun should I get, and list two guns that are completely different. How do you narrow it down to something like that? I’d understand if someone asked about Glock vs. HK or 1911 vs. BHP or Glock vs. Sig. But Gock vs. 1911? :? Sorry, to me that’s like asking what to get a Ford F150 or Chevy Cavalier. Decide what you want first!

 

[IM_Lugger]

I believe the original intent of this was to compare a Glock to a 1911 in the same price range

This entire tread makes no sense. If we compare guns in the same range $800-900 for a Glock than what 1911 should I compare it to? Norinco at $350 is out, so is any quality 1911 since they go for over $1200. So what’s left Springfield GI or mil-spec? :?

What kind of response can anyone expect to get out of a thread like this? Basically you get people comparing Glocks to whatever 1911 than want. :roll:

 

[redleg]

I believe the original intent of this was to compare a Glock to a 1911 in the same price range

This entire tread makes no sense. If we compare guns in the same range $800-900 for a Glock than what 1911 should I compare it to? Norinco at $350 is out, so is any quality 1911 since they go for over $1200. So what’s left Springfield GI or mil-spec? :?

What kind of response can anyone expect to get out of a thread like this? Basically you get people comparing Glocks to whatever 1911 than want. :roll:

Well originally this ws just an opinion poll. So all anyone had to do was offer a personal opinion as to which one they preferred. As is usually the case when someone starts a Glock vs. anything thread though, everyone feels the need to start a pissing contest over why their choice is right.

 

[teddy49]

All right, this was a hard choice for me. I own and love both. I have 2 1911s and one Glock. My Kimber has never had a stoppage that wasn't the fault of the ammo. Neither has my G-17. That said, I picked the Glock, cause 9mm Glocks are more common than 9mm 1911s. And before you fire up your flame throwers, I know that there are lots of 9mm 1911s kicking around. But if you're going to have a 1911, you might as well get it in major caliber, ie 10mm or 45 acp. And in the rest of the world you're going to find a lot more 9mm than you will 45 acp. If that situation was reversed, then I would have picked the 1911.

IHMO Glock makes the finest 9mm pistols in the world. And I own a BHP too. I've been to the Browing Museum (Ogden Utah, you owe it to yourself to check it out, if your ever in the Salt Lake City area) and left my DNA sample on the display cases, but my Browining sits in the safe and my Glock gets shot alot. So do my 1911s.

For all their differences, there are a number of similarities that make them attractive to shooters. The consistency of trigger pull is one of them. They are probably the two best triggers in pistols. Both are short travel, have no take up after reset (which is a big plus in my book) and are in the same pull weight range, If you get the standard or light glock trigger. The fact that a Glock doesn't have a different trigger pull, is a bonus in my book. It is vastly superior, to the double action only SIGs, Berettas, S&Ws etc. A friend who is a Gunsite instructor and a 1911 shooter for most of his life, borrowed my G-17 to practice some drills prior to taking a job overseas, and came back with his PACT timer, saying that his splits were faster with the Glock then they were with the 1911.

Though technically different, from a functional standpoint, ie; drills, they are identical. Both function like a single action pistol. While 1911 is a true single action, the Glock isn't. The Glock striker is partially cocked by slide movement, but final cocking and sear release is done by the trigger. While the Glock system is unique, neither system can restrike rounds. The slide must be cycled. I know that you could recock the hammer on a 1911, but there is no tactical basis for this and it wouldn't be done in any gunfight, except by the loser.

So to sum up I guess, that if I was picking a pistol to use anywhere in the world, I would pick the glock, strictly because of ammo availability. But if I were allowed to keep something by the bed, it would be my kimber, or my glock, or my kimber, or my glock, or my kimber, or my glock....

 

[Bartledan]

IM Lugger

I personally voted Glock. Yes. I have a Glock, which I like. However, I also have a 1911, which I also like. I like Berettas, too.

My point is, which of Glock and 1911s you like is entirely subjective. Either one will do the other's job, 100%... which is not true of your (again!) invalid analogy of truck vs. sport sedan.

Please, try to understand my point, instead of rushing to make another irrelevant analogy, talk at right angles to the discussion, or simply make things up. Go back and re-read my previous posts. Read them start to finish, and try to understand what I'm saying, instead of responding to what you assume I'm saying.

 

[FN]

Out of the box, as a go to gun, because of simplicity reliability and accuracy, I would pick the Glock over a standard 1911. But, I would take a Les Baer 1911 8) over any Glock. :wink:

 

[IM_Lugger]

redleg, I know this is another opinion thread, but it would be more ‘effective’ if we were all talking about the same 1911 model. Since I can think about an STI and vote for 1911, while someone might think of a Norinco and vote for Glock. People who voted for a Glock, might change their opinion if you ask them to consider another 1911 (esp. hi-end model)

Bartledan, I won’t bother re-reading anything , there’s no point… :| But I’m not sure you’re getting what I’m saying....

Either one will do the other's job, 100%…

Apparently US Army and almost every LE agency in North America disagrees with you… Let me ask you this; if they are can do each other jobs 100%, than why do police and military greatly prefer a Glock (or any DAO or DA/SA designs)? now do see my point? :wink:

I agree that they both can discharge a bullet and can be held and fired with one hand. I never disagreed with that. Revolvers fall in that catagory too... :|

 

[G21]

Glock in 45acp

 

[John Y.]

1911. Hands down.

I"ve fired a glock a few times but it shoots like the other polymer frame guns out there.
I know that Glocks are known for their reliability but for aesthetics, 1911 is a much more attractive gun.

JY

 

[Bartledan]

Let me ask you this; if they are can do each other jobs 100%, than why do police and military greatly prefer a Glock (or any DAO or DA/SA designs)?

Politics. Pure and simple. Didn't you know, DAO is safer than cocked and locked SA? The last sentence was sarcasm, by the way.

DAO/DA/SA decocked carry and 1911 cocked and locked carry are both 100% safe, so yeah, they are doing the same job, 100%.

Also, an entire 9mm cartridge weighs less (I think) than a .45 projectile alone. More cartridges for the money, in manufacturing and freight, right through the supply system.

So I suppose you could make a point for "firepower" vs. "stopping power" being the area between which the guns don't do each other's jobs 100%... if you want to start a real humdinger of an argument here!

I'm afraid there is no point to you re-reading my previous posts. You can lead a horse to water, I suppose.

I'm out!

 

[FN]

Let me ask you this;[/b] if they are can do each other jobs 100%, than why do police and military greatly prefer a Glock (or any DAO or DA/SA designs)?

One reason, $money$. It always comes down to the bottom line.

 

[Claven2]

I don't like the feel of the Glock grip. To me it's like squeezing a piece of cheese.

I am SOOOO going to +1 that remark!!! :shock:

 

[Claven2]

Now as for duty weapon Glock is probably the most common used police gun in North America. Who even uses 1911s these days?

Army. US drooped 1911s 20 years ago (in ‘85) and switched to Beretta 92. And as far as I know Canadian troops use BHP and not 1911.

Hmm... let's see.

Glock IS probably the most ISSUED LE sidearm in North America. True. Notice I said ISSUED, as opposed to used. Why? Because the volume of Glocks has more to do with it being general issue than because individual officers prefer it. If you go into any PD in the world and poll the officers on what they;d actually like to carry, I know for a fact you'd get a fairly even distribution between SIG, Beretta, HK, Glock, S&W, etc.

Your statement is like saying "The well worn and repeatedly refurbished Inglis Hi-Power is the best sidearm possible for the Canadian Forces, look at all the units that use it as opposed to the very small numbers of SIGs on issue". This, of course, makes no sense. Soldiers who have worn out Inglis pistols don't keep them because they want to (maybe some do), most have them because it's what's on issue. If 1911's were on issue, they would use those.

Not saying Glock sucks ass, it doesn't, but because Glock sells cheap to PD's and it's a flavor of the decade for logistics departments to adopt on general issue, does not make it the best pistol for all users.

1911's - who DOES use those these days? Well, the US Marines for one. Then there's the Texas Rangers. Not to mention most of the competitive US Army Natinal Match pistol shooters. Then there's numerous sherrif's departments and the odd PD - for example, the Tacoma PD issues the Kimber Pro Carry. Also about 30% of all LEOs in the US who are allowed to carry guns other than departmental issue accordign to a recent American Handgunner article I read.

 

[Claven2]

Apparently US Army and almost every LE agency in North America disagrees with you… Let me ask you this; if they are can do each other jobs 100%, than why do police and military greatly prefer a Glock (or any DAO or DA/SA designs)? now do see my point? :wink:

Please do your homework. The US army has exactly ZERO Glocks on issue. They DO issue (yes, even today) 1911's and Beretta 92's and the odd model of SIG.

Only about 50-60% or so of LE agencies issue Glock. The rest generally issue Beretta, SIG, S&W, etc. Our own RCMP uses S&W. OPP issue SIG. Most Glocks are issued by city PDs, not national Police Agencies, even in the USA.

Exactly which first class militaries issue Glock? No, I don;t see your point at all. I can think of exactly ONE military that has Glock on general issue - Austria. There might be a few other third-rate countries issueing it, but no-one in the G8 or any other modern first world military. :roll:

Also, 1911's ARE available in DAO and SA/DA models. And incidentally, lots of militaries still issue SA pistols... the Canadian military, for one...

 

[final shot]

1911 or Glock ?

I have both, 2 1911's and a Glock. But since I bought the Glock, I haven't used anymore the 1911's, so I've already sold one...
Glock suits me better, I've better results with it, even if it's uglier...
Best regards,
Rob

 

[IM_Lugger]

Clavan2 you should read more carefully and instead of jumping into conclusions; what I said was

Apparently US Army and almost every LE agency in North America disagrees with you… Let me ask you this; if they are can do each other jobs 100%, than why do police and military greatly prefer a Glock (or any DAO or DA/SA designs)?

Notice the bold part of the sentence? I never said that US military uses Glocks I said they use Berettas, I never said every LEO who carries a Glock wouldn’t trade it for any other gun. In fact I think the two reasons why so many PD use them are; 1) they cost less per unit the Berettas, Sigs, Hk, etc. 2)Glock is only 25oz and weight does metter, considering that cops have other things to carry as well. FYI I don’t care for Glocks at all. They work and I respect that, but I have no intention of owning one…

Bartledan, yes DA/SA or DAO is safer than SA, and no I’m not being sarcastic. DA/SA design has an advantage over a SA; it doesn't need the operator to manually #### the hammer. You also can re-strike a round if it fails to fire by simply pulling the trigger with a DA gun. Coked and locks is not always acceptable or allowed way to carry a gun. And that’s what it comes down to. This is not about politics it’s about common sense; DA/SA or DAO offers a couple of advantages over a SA plain and simple :!: So no they're not doing each others job 100%!

 

[Bartledan]

Claven2 nicely took care of the other points, but the ones directed to me by name I'll take:

Bartledan, yes DA/SA or DAO is safer than SA, and no I’m not being sarcastic.

Quote me one genuine, defensible statistic that shows cocked and locked carry of a single action is less safe than a DAO or DA/SA.

Quote me one genuine, defensible statistic showing more negligent discharges per issued weapon in SA pistols than DAO or DA/SA.

Good luck, because the fact is, cocked and locked carry of a 1911 is 100% safe.

DA/SA design has an advantage over a SA; it doesn't need the operator to manually #### the hammer. You also can re-strike a round if it fails to fire by simply pulling the trigger with a DA gun.

Anybody who thumbs the hammer on any gun deserves to have it broken when tehy accidentally slip and fire the round. We are talking about "cocked and locked", or condition 1, here. nobody will ever tell you to run around with a bullet in the chamber, hammer down on an SA pistol.

Second strike capability is nonsense. It's marketing garbage put about by the manufacturers of hammered guns to make striker fired guns seems somehow "risky". Why strike a primer that didn't work once already, when another round is a slide rack away?

Coked and locks is not always acceptable or allowed way to carry a gun. And that’s what it comes down to. This is not about politics it’s about common sense;

"acceptable or allowed" means political, dude. :roll:

What's that about common sense? Just because a person says "Eggs came before chickens, it's just common sense!", doesn't actually it's really common sense... If the statement is dead wrong, it's jsut nonsense, and the person who made the statement is a fool. Nothing more than that.

DA/SA or DAO offers a couple of advantages over a SA plain and simple :!: So no they're not doing each others job 100%!

Only in your opinion, which I disagree with. In my opinion, your "reasons" are inapplicable, and indefensible.

 

[IM_Lugger]

NO not only in my opinion;

FYI in ‘85 US when they decided to switch to NATO calibre, it was proposed that then issued 1911s were converted to 9mm instead of buying new guns. Needless to say that didn’t happen. SA designs were not even considered. Now what possible reason was there for them to discriminate against SA guns? Maybe they just thought that DA gun is a better choice? :idea: I mean why would almost every PD in North America stay away from SA guns if there were no (according to you) clear advantages of DA designs? Is there some kind of political conspiracy going on to replace SA guns with DA?

I think you trying to prove that a 94 year old SA design is just as advanced as any modern DA design is absurd. So in almost 100 years there has been no improvement what so ever? Wow. I wonder what kind of fool invented a DA revolver. :roll: