Atten Alberta Hunters

Duffy said:
sjemac

I think you have hit the nail on the head. There is in my view a lot of conjecture and "Knee jirk reaction" over this program. If you look at a lot of the posts you will see "its a slippery slope" and "you can bet that..." and "it will only be a matter of time till..."

It seems to me that some people do not understand the project, do not trust the gov't. and are afraid of change.

I do not understand all the details but I am willing to "wait and see". And will be very vocal in the evaluation prossess if need be.

Robin in Rocky
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Hello Duffy,

I am pretty sure I understand the project and I am also positive if we use a wait and see approach this will be the way hunting in the entire province will be even before the 5 years is up.

What is the evaluation process going to be? They have no baseline studies to use for the evaluation process. The current recomendation is 75% hunter satisfaction. How do they know if satisfaction has gone up or down?

Bubba
 
I am pretty sure I understand the project and I am also positive if we use a wait and see approach this will be the way hunting in the entire province will be even before the 5 years is up.

What is the evaluation process going to be? They have no baseline studies to use for the evaluation process. The current recomendation is 75% hunter satisfaction. How do they know if satisfaction has gone up or down?
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What portion of Ab hunters are they going to survey?

All Win holders?
All the hunters who draw in the pilot zones?
All the hunters who get on the ranches?
 
Lazy Ike said:
What portion of Ab hunters are they going to survey?

All Win holders?
All the hunters who draw in the pilot zones?
All the hunters who get on the ranches?
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All good questions with no answers; perhaps we should wait and see?

There are a lot more good questions that have been asked (to SRD, Cormack Gates and Ted Morton) and no answers have been given either. Some of the answers seem to be at the very least "conflicted". Like for example: When a hunter has to pay for access to private property (directly of indirectly) for the express purposes of hunting, is this not "Paid Hunting".

The reply has been that the hunter will not have to open his or her wallet to pay the landowner so it is not paid hunting. Interestingly, it appears that SRD, Gates and Morton need to amend the Wildlife Act in order to get this one through (and even if they are successful, I suspect it will be challenged against Federal laws).
 
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Bluffton Bill said:
What specifically does the act they have to change state?
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It is believed that the following, from the Alberta Wildlife Act, would have to be changed to accomodate the Open Spaces Proposal:

Disposition of access to land

49(1) No person shall directly or indirectly buy or sell, trade or barter or offer to buy or sell access to any land for the purpose of hunting any big game or any fur‑bearing animals on any land.

(2) No person shall directly or indirectly buy or sell, trade or barter or offer to buy or sell access to any land for the purpose of hunting any game bird except as provided in subsection (3).

(3) No person shall directly or indirectly buy or sell, trade or barter or offer to buy or sell access to any land for the purpose of hunting upland game birds

(a) on privately owned land unless the person holds a licence issued to the person for that purpose pursuant to this Act and except in accordance with the regulations, or

(b) on public land that is not privately owned land.

There is also a Federal component under the Wildlife Act that might be applicable.
 
I doubt they will be required to change anything. The only transaction taking place is the sale of a special license. The other half (RAMP) was some kind of a registration system for general access paid from an as yet unspecified fund (license cost increases???). They cannot charge for access. The problem is that there is no way the current plan can guarantee equitable access for residence.

The other problem I have with the current proposal is that it does nothing to help the smaller cow outfits which are so far in the red that land will start to be sold off into ranchettes/acreages. Once that happens, access will be considerably limited.

One thing for sure is that status quo is no longer acceptable or sustainable. Access on private land will be changing. Something like RAMP would be the least offensive. I'm not wild about the license sales, but it would reduce the amount that ACA and AFSC currently pay out on crop damage claims. At least I would hope the beureaucrats would not allow a double dip where they got the tags and compensation (of course I won't hold my breath).
 
Bluffton Bill - When Open Spaces was intitially "revealed" SRD stated that they would need to change the Wildlife Act to accomodate the "paid hunting" (my words) proposals.

I attended a meeting in late January with SRD and they claimed that they had a legal opinion that they would NOT need to change the Wildlife Act, probably similar to your observations. They did, however, state that they would be looking to make changes to "cover their butts" from any potential lawsuits.

The very latest information I have (from three days ago) is that they will be changing or amending the Wildlife Act to allow paid access.

I think many of us see this a huge Pandora's Box. If the Wildlife Act is changed, how can it be restricted to WMU's 108 and 300 only? I would venture a guess that as soon as the Wildlife Act is changed this would pave the way for paid access right across Alberta at the exact point in time that the Act is changed. This is especially relevant because whitetail deer and black bear have been included in landowner's allocations.

The law must be applied equally and/or to the benefit of all Albertans. I am not sure how they could restrict the Wildlife Act to two WMU's for a five year pilot program?

I had a great talk with the McIntyre Ranch yesterday with regard to some proposals that might recognize all landowers equally. It was very enlightening. I have spoken to a few groups and we are hoping to get the ball rolling on some sort of alternative habitat and conservation intitiative to recognize those responsible landowners. This is NOT my area of expertise, but I agree that something needs to be done to promote habitat and conservation initiatives and compensate particpating landowners.
 
Learned today that at the AGM for Alberta fish and game that the resolution to support "Open Spaces" was voted down Unanimously (not 1 vote supporting Open Spaces). Hopefully it sends a message. We will see how well the P.C.'s listen to Albertan's.
 
guido said:
Learned today that at the AGM for Alberta fish and game that the resolution to support "Open Spaces" was voted down Unanimously (not 1 vote supporting Open Spaces). Hopefully it sends a message. We will see how well the P.C.'s listen to Albertan's.
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Nice! That SHOULD send a message.
 
Yea! and that snake Morton announced that SRD is looking at opening up Sunday hunting in WMU 300 and then he said that SRD was possibly looking at some additional hunting oportunity for muzzleloader hunting.

So you know what that means. There will be fat cat rich american non-resident aliens hunting with muzzleloaders on Sunday in WMU300 on HFH ranches using the permits given to the hfh landowner groups. The ones that residents will not be able to aford cause they will cost $10,000 or $15,000 or probably more like $50,000 (it is after all a slippery slope)

And whats next? Well probably Morton will allow crossbows in the archery season on Sundays for Non-resident aliens in WMU 300. Yea that will probably be coming soon.

Robin in Rocky
 
Duffy said:
Yea! and that snake Morton announced that SRD is looking at opening up Sunday hunting in WMU 300 and then he said that SRD was possibly looking at some additional hunting oportunity for muzzleloader hunting.

So you know what that means. There will be fat cat rich american non-resident aliens hunting with muzzleloaders on Sunday in WMU300 on HFH ranches using the permits given to the hfh landowner groups. The ones that residents will not be able to aford cause they will cost $10,000 or $15,000 or probably more like $50,000 (it is after all a slippery slope)

And whats next? Well probably Morton will allow crossbows in the archery season on Sundays for Non-resident aliens in WMU 300. Yea that will probably be coming soon.

Robin in Rocky
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:weird:
 
Duffy said:
Yea! and that snake Morton announced that SRD is looking at opening up Sunday hunting in WMU 300 and then he said that SRD was possibly looking at some additional hunting oportunity for muzzleloader hunting.

So you know what that means. There will be fat cat rich american non-resident aliens hunting with muzzleloaders on Sunday in WMU300 on HFH ranches using the permits given to the hfh landowner groups. The ones that residents will not be able to aford cause they will cost $10,000 or $15,000 or probably more like $50,000 (it is after all a slippery slope)

And whats next? Well probably Morton will allow crossbows in the archery season on Sundays for Non-resident aliens in WMU 300. Yea that will probably be coming soon.

Robin in Rocky
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If that is truly how you felt duffy, why did you vote against supporting the Open Spaces resolution at the AFGA AGM too?
Did your entire club speak against it so you were forced to? Is that also why you wanted to have a secret ballot?
I guess it is easier to be a tough outspoken guy on the net.....:cool:
 
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norskie said:
If that is truly how you felt duffy, why did you vote against supporting the Open Spaces resolution at the AFGA AGM too?
Did your entire club speak against it so you were forced to? Is that also why you wanted to have a secret ballot?
I guess it is easier to be a tough outspoken guy on the net.....:cool:
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So Duufy, you wanted a secret ballot eh, That would have changed your vote and you would have voted against your F&G members decision? Maybe they should rethink who represents them.
 
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