- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
a Laser sight
........ a big fricken laser sight in the 40 megawat range
........ a big fricken laser sight in the 40 megawat range
Bear Defense Rifle Optic?
- Thread starter M.w.wolf
- Start date
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ok fudd, it’s time for the retirement home.
I don't own one because I've never bothered with a magnifier, but have been told it's the better option over a tip-off mount.
A ghost sight would work best I think. You dont need any magnification for defence. - dan
Seriously? - dan
If it were well and truly a defensive gun and nothing else I’d just go with some quality open sights and call it good. The reason I say quality is I’ve had irons break, and loosen in the field ( In my case they were un-used back-up irons on scoped rifles, so no harm done). I’ve seen a few more.
The trouble for me is that none of my guns are pure defence and nothing else. I’m a scope guy through and through; shoot with both eyes open and have spent some time learning to shoot unsighted by looking over the scope. Un-aimed fire is a thing.
Otherwise, a variable with a reasonable low end is good enough. I’ve got a 2.5-8 on my 458 and never wished it was less. Shot a charging buffalo with it too, and more than a few that if they weren’t charging were definitely at least running the wrong way.
Preferred magnification is a personal thing, and I don’t believe we all see things the same way. If you shoot with both eyes open and say a 4 power scope what do you see? Would it be 2 images, one magnified and one not? Not me, through a split screen brain would be interesting. Do you see everything as 4x, everything as 1x? Does your brain average everything out to something in the middle? Or do you just feel like your head is going to explode? Thats common too.
Speaking soley for myself; somewhere around 2.5-3 power I see an unmagnified world with a reticle hanging in the middle of it. Just like looking out a window with an X painted on it. At 4 I see a slightly magnified world, but not one that things are 4 times closer just a bit. Below 2.5 X things look farther away than they really are. We might gather light with our eyes, but we process it with our brains. What my brain puts together to try to make sense out of 2 conflicting images might not be the same as the next guy; so me telling him what power of scope to use is a fool’s errand.
The trouble for me is that none of my guns are pure defence and nothing else. I’m a scope guy through and through; shoot with both eyes open and have spent some time learning to shoot unsighted by looking over the scope. Un-aimed fire is a thing.
Otherwise, a variable with a reasonable low end is good enough. I’ve got a 2.5-8 on my 458 and never wished it was less. Shot a charging buffalo with it too, and more than a few that if they weren’t charging were definitely at least running the wrong way.
Preferred magnification is a personal thing, and I don’t believe we all see things the same way. If you shoot with both eyes open and say a 4 power scope what do you see? Would it be 2 images, one magnified and one not? Not me, through a split screen brain would be interesting. Do you see everything as 4x, everything as 1x? Does your brain average everything out to something in the middle? Or do you just feel like your head is going to explode? Thats common too.
Speaking soley for myself; somewhere around 2.5-3 power I see an unmagnified world with a reticle hanging in the middle of it. Just like looking out a window with an X painted on it. At 4 I see a slightly magnified world, but not one that things are 4 times closer just a bit. Below 2.5 X things look farther away than they really are. We might gather light with our eyes, but we process it with our brains. What my brain puts together to try to make sense out of 2 conflicting images might not be the same as the next guy; so me telling him what power of scope to use is a fool’s errand.
Very well put!
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Anyone that pretends like iron sights can’t possibly have zero shift, or break, or snag deserves it.
And anyone who thinks that optics dont have the same, but at a much higher rate, is denying reality. - dan
You're right that it's always a question of degree: What is reliable "enough"?
I have never seen an actual number given for failure rate of any kind of sight. That's not surprising - How would you even come up with an objective measure for this? Most people baby their firearms (in general) and their sighting systems (in particular), so they never get even close to seeing the failure points. So they form opinions based on limited personal experience, and the advice of various loudmouths on the internet, if they choose to listen to them.
Absolutely, the bottom-tier red dot optics are generally not trustworthy for serious use (just like some unreliable bottom-tier iron sights). But mid market options are light years ahead of where they were about ten years ago, and some are "reliable enough" for many applications. And top-tier red dots have what I'd call an extremely low failure rate, and have had for more than a few years now.
I like some types of iron sights, and I like some types of red dot sights, and I regularly use both. If red dot sights had no advantages over iron sights, I wouldn't use them at all. For me, for many applications, their advantages outweigh their disadvantages.
I’ve posted this rifle before but I like my 12” Chiappa 1892 .44 mag for a camping rifle, have a red dot and light mounted onto the factory scout style rail on the barrel. Mounted this way it’s pretty low but doesn’t co-witness, have it on an aimpoint QD mount not so can quickly be removed.
Have full faith that the aimpoint won’t fail but if that were to happen point and shoot defensive range I’m not too worried. About 6.5lbs total weight easy to carry.
Have full faith that the aimpoint won’t fail but if that were to happen point and shoot defensive range I’m not too worried. About 6.5lbs total weight easy to carry.
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That’s why literally every military that can afford them use optics, because they’re crap that breaks too much.
No, they're a tool that enhances some capabilities, at a breakage rate the military is willing to accept. No more, no less. - dan
Yep, and made by the lowest bidder to boot; just like every other piece of kit.
holosun 507c with rail mount, battery is optional, it has solar and uses solar primary, battery is back up for not enough light to solar then battery kicks in, and has automatic brightness and shake awake auto mode, or manual mode, not cheap but it's 2.5 oz with rail mount, pretty popular pistol defence sight where fully auto fail safe illumination is a thing, the 407c is less money but only has the one 2 moa dot reticle, for bears the 507c has 3 different reticle options, the 2 moa center dot with 65 moa ring would be the hot ticket
here's a 407c on my ultralight howa 6.5 grendel project (4 lb 13.5 oz as pictured, not including the 1 oz shell holder on butt stock, with shell holder full with 9 rounds, 5 1/4 lbs, about 37.5" long)
and if considering a nighttime option that can quick attach to a rail slot on side of stock or what not, look at baldr o-light mini, best bang for buck/size/weight, it's easy to install a little single slot weaver rail anywhere, but easier with chassis rigs, or some rifles add little rails all over, and if only rail is up top and it's a long one there are picatinny to 45 degree picatinny type adapters out there so your top mounted optic isn't affected and your light/laser combo can angle off to the side, slap it on come night time for whatever, take it off for day time
here's a 407c on my ultralight howa 6.5 grendel project (4 lb 13.5 oz as pictured, not including the 1 oz shell holder on butt stock, with shell holder full with 9 rounds, 5 1/4 lbs, about 37.5" long)
and if considering a nighttime option that can quick attach to a rail slot on side of stock or what not, look at baldr o-light mini, best bang for buck/size/weight, it's easy to install a little single slot weaver rail anywhere, but easier with chassis rigs, or some rifles add little rails all over, and if only rail is up top and it's a long one there are picatinny to 45 degree picatinny type adapters out there so your top mounted optic isn't affected and your light/laser combo can angle off to the side, slap it on come night time for whatever, take it off for day time
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Military weapons are not designed primarily as defence weapons. What do you need in a defence weapon? First, you need to have it. Second, reliability over all. And at this point, optics are still not as dead reliable as irons. Just the way it is. We arent talking for hunting, or target shooting, or going to war. We are talking defence. - dan
