Best .308 Black Rifle

What is the best Black Rifle in .308?

  • DPMS LR308

    Votes: 22 5.9%

  • HK MR308

    Votes: 47 12.7%

  • KAC SR-25

    Votes: 66 17.8%

  • Keltec RFB

    Votes: 78 21.0%

  • LMT LM308

    Votes: 63 17.0%

  • LWRC REPR

    Votes: 10 2.7%

  • POF P308

    Votes: 10 2.7%

  • PWS MK212

    Votes: 11 3.0%

  • RA XCR-M

    Votes: 62 16.7%

  • RRA 308

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Total voters
    371
Generally I'm not a fan of short barelled carbines. With the 308 a 20" barrel is as short as I usually like to go. That being said 16" is a lot handier.

One of the issues with 16" or shorter 308 rifles is reliability. Loss of velocity is of course the second concern. KAC went with a rifle length gas system for their 16" which seems to work very well and is soft to shoot. Most use a carbine length gas system and over gas to keep it reliable with varying degrees of sucess.

Which brings us to the piston systems. PWS has a couple short barelled products. They use an AK like long stroke piston setup and come with SS barrels. Around $3200. Sig 716 uses a short stroke system and is said to be decent and it's cheaper. But I don't think the barrel is match grade. HK also has a short stroke piston although cost and the lack of short barreled options for the public rules it out.

I'd either reconsider barrel length, look at the PWS or wait a bit until what you're looking for hits the market. There are new products in the AR308 market all the time. ADCOR was rumoured to be making a 308. Also more barrel options could come up.

I'm afraid you'll have to do your homework on this one. But that's half the fun of any purchase anyways.
 
Great info. Epoxy7 thanks for the quick reply. Gathering info. while time consuming has helped me to learn more then I ever thought was possible about firearms and the many small but critical details that go into making the whole an accurate and reliable firearm. Of course I still have much to learn particularly with the AR systems, but like you've said, it will be fun.

Cheers Zeroed In
 
I would take a good M14 over any of those rifles, i have shot most 7.62x51 service rifles and the M14 has seemed the most reliable and has the best iron sights by far, but its not as ergonomic like a FAL or AR10, A properly made M14 is tougher and more accurate than a FAL or G3 in my opinion , seems most all AR10s have reliability issues even the KAC from what reports from the sandbox say but the Ar10 is probably the most accurate out of the the bunch ..
 
boss351cleveland said:
I would take a good M14 over any of those rifles, i have shot most 7.62x51 service rifles and the M14 has seemed the most reliable and has the best iron sights by far, but its not as ergonomic like a FAL or AR10, A properly made M14 is tougher and more accurate than a FAL or G3 in my opinion , seems most all AR10s have reliability issues even the KAC from what reports from the sandbox say but the Ar10 is probably the most accurate out of the the bunch ..
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The AR10 is a ferrari. The M14 is the old reliable farm pickup truck. Most reliability issues with an AR10 are the same as with an AR15. Mags most likely, sand/grit also the most likely culprit along with not having access to good metal conditioners/oil. The M14 requires less maintenance as it's a crude but reliable piston rifle. But... once you start to talk about the M14 as a precision rifle it becomes an expensive Jaguar that like the Jaguar requires constant maintenance to keep it at that level. An older Jaguar owner was best friends with his/her mechanic. A precision M14 owner is best friends with his/her Gunsmith. Or they are really into the DIY maintenance. The M14 as a DM/precision rifle is a money and time pit. The AR10 will shoot .5 moa 5 round groups with a good barrel and a good trigger. The only semi auto that is more accurate in 308 is the $35000-75,000 WA2000. AR10 maintenance? Metal conditioner, oil and regular cleaning. No stock bedding, pillar bedding or other fine tuning required.

I like the FN FAL although the mag release is the ergonomic weakness on it. But precision rifle it isn't. Plus it's prohibited. For a DM rifle I'd go with the AR10 any day over the other options.
 
I have 2 armalite AR10's and had 2 M14's including one completely tricked out including Krieger barrel and JAE stock. Both Armalites cut cloverleafs right out of the box, and neither has ever had a single ftf. Running 4 .308 semi's can get expensive real quick, so I made the decision and cut the M14's loose. I like the classic M14 look with the irons and a nice walnut stock, but I'm not into constantly tinkering with a gun to keep it up to scratch
 
fortis risk said:
Kel Tec for the win! Thats hilarious. Some strange opinions on here.
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Well the problem is the question was broad, not the most accurate, the most reliable, the best bang for buck , the best looking or most battle proven. So everyone chose what for THEM what there favorite ( ideal) rifle.

Would a heavy 20 inch barrel ar be my choice for sandy trench fighting? No

Would the rfb be my ideal rifle for deployment of a standing army? No

Would a m14 be my go to bug out in a vehicle rifle ? No



It all depends on what's your pou for the rifle.
 
ntm said:
Even more disturbing is the number of votes for the xcr-m, at least the rfb is compact and inaccurate. The xcr-m is just inaccurate.
I'll take an sr25 or an mws any day, thank you.
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according to who ? im not sure what you expect out of a semi auto with an 18.5" barrel. but from what i have seen and read the RFB is easy a 1.5 MOA rifle. seems pretty good. you want better than that get a bolt gun.
 
ntm said:
Even more disturbing is the number of votes for the xcr-m, at least the rfb is compact and inaccurate. The xcr-m is just inaccurate.
I'll take an sr25 or an mws any day, thank you.
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I'll give you the benefit of shooting your stock xcr and then review your comment. Please include a photo of your Xcr-m in action and serial number. I'd even settle for your range report. And of course side by side with the sr25. Since I'm interested in buying one I'd love to read your in depth review, esp. About the xcrm inaccuracy.
 
Aries- said:
according to who ? im not sure what you expect out of a semi auto with an 18.5" barrel. but from what i have seen and read the RFB is easy a 1.5 MOA rifle. seems pretty good. you want better than that get a bolt gun.
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308 is expensive.
I expect it to go exactly where I want.
The rfb is a 1.5 moa rifle at best, the average isn't as rosy.
The 18" ss barrelled mws that replaced my xcr-m is a solid sub moa rifle. It's a semi auto ?
 
orthoboy said:
I'll give you the benefit of shooting your stock xcr and then review your comment. Please include a photo of your Xcr-m in action and serial number. I'd even settle for your range report. And of course side by side with the sr25. Since I'm interested in buying one I'd love to read your in depth review, esp. About the xcrm inaccuracy.
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Lots of info here regarding my accuracy testing.
http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/19-308-winchester-7-62-51mm/4098-xcr-m-accuracy.html
There is more scattered around cgn as well.
Long story short, you could once in a while get a decent 3-4 round group, but more often than not it strung vertically quite badly. Like 5-10 round groups would average 3 to 4".
Traded it out for an mws and went to shooting 1.5" groups at 300 yards overnight.

My old m




Look before you leap...
 
ntm said:
308 is expensive.
I expect it to go exactly where I want.
The rfb is a 1.5 moa rifle at best, the average isn't as rosy.
The 18" ss barrelled mws that replaced my xcr-m is a solid sub moa rifle. It's a semi auto ?
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And being 18" it is restricted and pretty useless for anything but punching paper. To expensive for plinking. No good for long range target shooting with that short barrel. So what you have is a very expensive plinking rifle.

The rfb when tuned to the ammo is easily a 1.5moa semi rifle with utility that can be used for hunting easily out to 200-300 yards.
 
Aries- said:
And being 18" it is restricted and pretty useless for anything but punching paper. To expensive for plinking. No good for long range target shooting with that short barrel. So what you have is a very expensive plinking rifle.

The rfb when tuned to the ammo is easily a 1.5moa semi rifle with utility that can be used for hunting easily out to 200-300 yards.
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I've had the mws out to 1200 yards, it excels at those distances. Even a 16" barrel is plenty for those ranges...

I agree with your assessment of the rfb, it is an excellent hunting rifle for deer and larger sized game out to 300 yards.
Of course one could make the argument that a m305 provides similar performance at significantly less cost, albeit without the compactness.

It all depends what you place your value on, personally I place accuracy, quality and ergonomics above all others, and in that order.
For some it's simply non-restricted status due unavailability of decent ranges to use or tasking the rifle for nothing but hunting large game at shorter ranges.
Different strokes for different folks.
But the original question was what is the best 308 black rifle, and I can assure you the rfb and xcr-m aren't even in the same time zone as the mws, sr25, or even a dpms. Not even remotely.
 
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