Best combat handgun...

Kidd X said:
Can you explain why "bland and ordinary" makes a difference in performance or reliability? No one makes a pistol with fewer parts and Glocks run and run and run. The polymer is 86% lighter and some 30% stronger than steel by weight/thickness. The polymer in the frame keeps it light, thermally neutral, is impervious to environment and yes is cost effective to produce.

I'm not sure what you mean by "flimsy slide-retaining clip". If you're talking about the slide lock used for disassembly then I'm not sure where the flimsy comment comes in? I've had more than a dozen Glock pistols and have friends with another dozen Glock pistols and no one has yet broken their slide lock. All combined we have over a quarter million rounds through our pistols.

Not sure how you equate modular to being more durable? The US mil wants modular so they can inventory fewer items while having one pistol(with its accessories) serve all roles. Aside from changing the overall size of the pistol the grip size changes are a gimmick sold to untrained/unskilled people who don't know any better. The vast majority of handguns have nearly identical grip sizes and none of which plays any significant role in shooter performance. Length of pull can be a problem like that of the Beretta 92 series and legacy SIG pistols but the grip circumference is irrelevant.

Glock has taken the market in less than 30 years from inception and currently has a near 1 million pistol back log in production. I don't think they are obsolete and they surely aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Those who are permitted to choose their pistol as opposed to being issued their pistol have chosen Glock 19's. That would be the entire US SOF community.
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Struck a nerve with the Glock fan club regarding their 35 year old pistol.

1) Slide-retaining clips = what passes fore slide rails in a Glock. Nothing to do with slide-locks.
2) I said nothing whatsoever claiming that plastic grip frames were not light or relatively strong.
3) Plastic grip frames with no sub-frame DO fracture in stress locations on occasion, creating a major and costly headache for civilian owners to replace. There are plenty of reports in gun forums, although the Glock fans live in denial about this.
4) Say what you will. Modular is the future. The 35 year old Glock pattern serialized plastic grip frame is becoming the past.
5) Glock and other all-plastic grip frame makers may now still dominate the market, but the 35-year-old design has been surpassed by the superior modular concept which will replace it.
 
Still alive said:
TDC was a legend here! He always came across as arrogant but I believe he was on point in a lot of his assessments. He annoyed a lot of people when he challenged their POVs but he would never agree to a meet and shoot to prove his " superiority".
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Still Alive - see he had his good points.:>).

KIDDX it is no complement to be compared to TDC. Might be worth considering.

There is an ignore button on this board thankfully.

Take Care

Bob
 
Still alive said:
Don't waste your breath Kidd X.
I gave up trying to reason with him a while ago.
I think he stepped on a Lego brick as a kid and now just hates anything plastic.
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Your definition of "reason" being only any opinion that is in full agreement with your own?

Your final comment, besides being meaningless, is simply a troll.
Trolls comments deflect the subject matter, and are merely attacks on the person that they disagree with.
Trolls accuse, insult, and belittle the person, and contribute nothing to the discussion.
 
Kidd X said:
I did some searching for this TDC person and I agree with a lot of what he says, but he seems like a bit of a douche. Can I say that if he isn't a member anymore?
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He is a douche and lives in Calgary. You come across like him. In the way you explain yourself. Not saying your a douche but i have TDC flashbacks when i read your stuff.

My apologies if your not him.
 
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Having never been in combat, and never intending on it...

92fs

I've tried a number of different Glocks, own a 1911...

And it comes down to if I want to hit what I'm pointing at, the 92fs wins.

But that's just for me. The Beretta "fits my hand" and I find it easy to shoot.

Maintenance of any gun is what it is. If you maintain it, it will be true to you. Applies to all modern handguns.

IMHO, the "best combat handgun" is the one you know and shoot well. If that's a Glock - choose Glock. If that's a Sig - choose Sig. If that's a 1911... (I think you get the picture).
 
Lonesome Donkey said:
Your definition of "reason" being only any opinion that is in full agreement with your own?

Your final comment, besides being meaningless, is simply a troll.
Trolls comments deflect the subject matter, and are merely attacks on the person that they disagree with.
Trolls accuse, insult, and belittle the person, and contribute nothing to the discussion.
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IIRC, your interest lies in all metal guns, correct? " Struck a nerve with the Glock fan club regarding their 35 year old pistol"?
This coming from a guy who loves his 105 year old pistol?
I do not belittle the metal guns. I respect the 1911s and BHPs. There are deficiencies in ALL guns. Function, ergonomics, design, wear and reliability. There is no one gun that fits all people. That would be boring. Guns are mechanical objects and are subject to failures.

I was not asking for " full agreement". You consistently attack the Glock platform everywhere you post. As has been documented and proven, the Glock is a durable and efficient firearm that has served well all over the world and in all capacities. Of course guns fail! But based on the number of active Glocks in the field, I'm positive that any catastrophic failures are quite minimal and in line with or better than any other firearm out there. Yet you consistently deride the gun. Other than maybe owning one 35 years ago or knew a friend of a friend who broke his, or saw one jam during a match, what evidence do you have to substantiate such hatred? Oh, any evidence must be weighed along with the same issues occuring in other polymer and non-polymer guns.

And as for trolling, where did I attack, accuse, insult or belittle you?
I marely suggested a possible reason why you don't like plastic guns. If I had a bad experience with Lego myself, I may have had the same opinion also!
 
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giggling, so by modular does the Glock hater mean Glock Gen IV? or maybe the new 17M and 19M (they do have some bugs in them though). I've had to have a Glock 19 rebuilt, new frame, new slide, new barrel, new everything, took me 3 weeks to get that done. So yeah, if your gun destructs due to bad ammo (that's what killed mine) it's pretty damn easy to fix or replace. And cheap too.

For me, and remember, I shoot a CZ 99% of the time, I'd be picking the G19 or 17. Can't really argue with it's durability, accuracy and most importantly when carrying for extended periods of time, weight. It's also dead simple to work on, requiring one tool or a nail or similar. When you look at the units that can buy whatever they want, with pretty much zero oversight, they all go Glock, there is a reason.
 
Slavex said:
giggling, so by modular does the Glock hater mean Glock Gen IV? or maybe the new 17M and 19M (they do have some bugs in them though). I've had to have a Glock 19 rebuilt, new frame, new slide, new barrel, new everything, took me 3 weeks to get that done. So yeah, if your gun destructs due to bad ammo (that's what killed mine) it's pretty damn easy to fix or replace. And cheap too.

For me, and remember, I shoot a CZ 99% of the time, I'd be picking the G19 or 17. Can't really argue with it's durability, accuracy and most importantly when carrying for extended periods of time, weight. It's also dead simple to work on, requiring one tool or a nail or similar. When you look at the units that can buy whatever they want, with pretty much zero oversight, they all go Glock, there is a reason.
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...And the heavens opened, and Truth was handed down!

Slavex, we know you're a huge CZ fanboy. Would you pick the CZ P10 ( seeing as you're probably the only person here who has actually shot one) over a G19? Or still go with the Glock?
 
Amongst our newly founded IDPA group, I do quite well with my S&W M66 snubby against the 'bottom feeder' plastic guns. Likely because I started shooting a revolver back in the days of "Combat Pistol Shooting" with my 4" M66. All you have to do is place your rds into an 8" diameter circle, usually at less than 15 yds. How tough is that?

"The rule of applied firepower - it is not the first rd fired or the number of rds that settles the matter. It is the first rd that finds the intended mark." Jeff Cooper

"Spray & pray" only works in the movies.

My wife shoots CZ Shadows and I occasionally use one of my 1911s to show the plastic guns what a REAL gun looks and sounds like.
 
Slavex said:
giggling, so by modular does the Glock hater mean Glock Gen IV? or maybe the new 17M and 19M (they do have some bugs in them though). I've had to have a Glock 19 rebuilt, new frame, new slide, new barrel, new everything, took me 3 weeks to get that done. So yeah, if your gun destructs due to bad ammo (that's what killed mine) it's pretty damn easy to fix or replace. And cheap too.

For me, and remember, I shoot a CZ 99% of the time, I'd be picking the G19 or 17. Can't really argue with it's durability, accuracy and most importantly when carrying for extended periods of time, weight. It's also dead simple to work on, requiring one tool or a nail or similar. When you look at the units that can buy whatever they want, with pretty much zero oversight, they all go Glock, there is a reason.
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The CZ is the one gun i have not owned. I held one once. Am I missing out? Would the shadow be the best one to buy?
 
Still alive said:
IIRC, your interest lies in all metal guns, correct? " Struck a nerve with the Glock fan club regarding their 35 year old pistol"?
This coming from a guy who loves his 105 year old pistol?
I do not belittle the metal guns. I respect the 1911s and BHPs. There are deficiencies in ALL guns. Function, ergonomics, design, wear and reliability. There is no one gun that fits all people. That would be boring. Guns are mechanical objects and are subject to failures.

I was not asking for " full agreement". You consistently attack the Glock platform everywhere you post. As has been documented and proven, the Glock is a durable and efficient firearm that has served well all over the world and in all capacities. Of course guns fail! But based on the number of active Glocks in the field, I'm positive that any catastrophic failures are quite minimal and in line with or better than any other firearm out there. Yet you consistently deride the gun. Other than maybe owning one 35 years ago or knew a friend of a friend who broke his, or saw one jam during a match, what evidence do you have to substantiate such hatred? Oh, any evidence must be weighed along with the same issues occuring in other polymer and non-polymer guns.

And as for trolling, where did I attack, accuse, insult or belittle you?
I marely suggested a possible reason why you don't like plastic guns. If I had a bad experience with Lego myself, I may have had the same opinion also!
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1) I made no mention of 1911 autos or steel or aluminum-framed pistols here whatsoever. In fact, I stated that plastic-framed modular pistols were indeed superior to all-plastic-framed pistols.
2) Your assertion that I "consistently attack Glock pistols everywhere I post" is also false. I comment on several forums and only occasionally mention Glock pistols at all.
3) I never stated here that Glocks experience catastrophic failures. Your words, not mine.
4) Hatred for the Glock and plastic-framed pistols? I don't like them but I don't hate them. IMHO, you are taking this all rather personally.
If I hated all plastic-framed pistols, then why would I endorse modular pistols, which also have plastic frames?
5) Troll? I refer readers to posting #64 above, for my opinion about this. Some may disagree of course.
 
Lonesome Donkey said:
1) I made no mention of 1911 autos or steel or aluminum-framed pistols here whatsoever. In fact, I stated that plastic-framed modular pistols were indeed superior to all-plastic-framed pistols.
2) Your assertion that I "consistently attack Glock pistols everywhere I post" is also false. I comment on several forums and only occasionally mention Glock pistols at all.
3) I never stated here that Glocks experience catastrophic failures. Your words, not mine.
4) Hatred for the Glock and plastic-framed pistols? I don't like them but I don't hate them. IMHO, you are taking this all rather personally.
If I hated all plastic-framed pistols, then why would I endorse modular pistols, which also have plastic frames?
5) Troll? I refer readers to posting #64 above, for my opinion about this. Some may disagree of course.
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Please take a peek at Slavex's post. You may have some input for him?
And please ask Rob if I'm trolling. He is a mod afterall. And if I go pink tonight, you win! Sounds good?
 
Sharps '63 said:
"The rule of applied firepower - it is not the first rd fired or the number of rds that settles the matter. It is the first rd that finds the intended mark." Jeff Cooper
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FBI Miami shootout - Platt was hit by 9mm into the chest, lung had collapsed, would die from that wound alone. He however proceeded to fight against 8 armed agents, and killed 2 and wounded all others multiple times and was stopped only after 12 hits.

So all these rules and neat sayings, no matter who said it, are just that - neat sayings. Everything else is just various degrees of chance multiplied by various degrees of being in a wrong place at a wrong time.
 
owlowl said:
FBI Miami shootout - Platt was hit by 9mm into the chest, lung had collapsed, would die from that wound alone. He however proceeded to fight against 8 armed agents, and killed 2 and wounded all others multiple times and was stopped only after 12 hits.

So all these rules and neat sayings, no matter who said it, are just that - neat sayings. Everything else is just various degrees of chance multiplied by various degrees of being in a wrong place at a wrong time.
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So where was the swat sniper during that incident? A high powered rifle round to the melon would have worked eh?
 
My choice would be the Sig-Sauer P320 modular pistol.
Don't know if it's the "best" combat handgun, but I think that it is among the best.
It's among the contenders for the U.S. Army competition for a replacement sidearm, which must be a modular design.
The steel or aluminum sub-frame is the future.
 
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