Black Badge question
- Thread starter Slavex
- Start date
Dude, did you even read my last post? go back and read it.
Quigley, we don't have one rule for everyone. People who are members or other regions can come shoot here with no problems at all. USPSA, South Africa, Czech, etc etc. So if those shooters are deemed ok, why can we not deem other shooters ok? I'm perfectly willing to leave this in the hands of BB instructors, if they know the individual, can vouch for their competence, why not allow them to do so? Get them to write the test and give them their badge.
I understand what your saying but I don't agree about the Military and LE...I watch the LE shoot at my club and they scare me.. shooting the floor and stuff.....as for the military well I was a range officer for a long time when I was posted elsewhere and again some guy's are not good at all with pistol...you have to remember we are soldier first (maybe) but sometime that is very very far from our day to day occupation.
So I think the course is very good, and it provide a different view, if the only reason for one not to join IPSC is because the course....I'm then glad he's not joining....he would probably b@#$h..... just about everything else.
Quigley, we don't have one rule for everyone. People who are members or other regions can come shoot here with no problems at all. USPSA, South Africa, Czech, etc etc. So if those shooters are deemed ok, why can we not deem other shooters ok? I'm perfectly willing to leave this in the hands of BB instructors, if they know the individual, can vouch for their competence, why not allow them to do so? Get them to write the test and give them their badge.
...this is the very reason it would never work.
...and yes, in Canada, we have one set of rules for everyone.
This sounds like a solution looking for a problem
I love when those stories come out.....
We all know police and military can't shoot. Every hole in the roof and wall at any range across the country is from them.
No recreational or sport shooter could ever be possible of doing such a thing because they are trained so much better and shoot more in a week than LE/MIL.
I don't think it is true obviously,..but I have seen some very awful shooters at work and also seem some VERY good shooters at work. The very good shooters all shot on their own time or competed in PPC at some time. What they lack on a non-static range and in action shooting sports (IPSC) is the safety (breaking 90!! and trigger finger placement),....especially during movement using positions. I have never seen an IPSC shooter shoot into the ceiling / off into the air above them at any range(a testament to the training in my area, or just not out shooting enough?) The AD's or ND's I have seen were into the berm or dirt in front of them, or just skimmed over the berm.
What I did notice about LE or military who become IPSC shooters is that they usually are some of the safest shooters AFTER they take the BB course.
...this is the very reason it would never work.
...and yes, in Canada, we have one set of rules for everyone.
This sounds like a solution looking for a problem
Why has not the rest of the world adopted this if it is such a good idea?
If you can shoot, shoot!
It seems to work everywhere else. USPSA and other IPSC regions do not need courses.
But then again what do I know.
I think BB is an excellent introduction into world of safe IPSC shooting. Will this eliminate unsafe acts 100%, probably not. It is in us, those who have been in IPSC for years to guide new competitors and guard the rules.
If I could change something, it would be refreshing BB course for anyone who gets DQ more then twice in a year.
As for other countries, let them worry about their own safety record.
If I could change something, it would be refreshing BB course for anyone who gets DQ more then twice in a year.
As for other countries, let them worry about their own safety record.
I have seen several IPSC BB trained shooters AD into the air, one at Burlington shot straight up through the roof; I believe he was trained by our curent world president (was a long time ago).
Cheers
Exactly my point. BB is an *introduction*, so people who been introduced to the sport long enough don't really need it.
It is just right now BB is serving another purpose, as a guard check mark for IPSC Canada body, so members have taken the course and after that IPSC Canada is not responsible for any accidents. They have been thought and passed the exam.
That's been in place for sometime now...
I have on one occasion had a guy show up for a course with a pistol he hadn't even fired yet. Never wore a holster before, and shot a pistol a few times years ago, and wanted to take the BB. I will admit I was leary of him at first. But you know what, we are all people, and if we want to learn, we will, anyone who says you have to be a genious to figure this out and learn to do it safely is a liar. This guy only needed to be told or shown once, and he ran with it. I have had people reshoot over and over before they got it, and I don't let them away with anything but they did get it eventually. Safety is the #1 priority. If they can't learn that, well, I think that answers any questions there. And the big thing people seem to overlook is that we must continually learn, and in effect continually teach other shooters. There is always room for improvement, even with safety. The BB course is an excellent tool, but I will admit, to add to what Slavex stated, I have had students that the course was a waste of money, because after going through the rulebook and asking some questions, they had safety figured out, they knew all about the different divisions, equipment placement etc.... scoring etc... and when we went to the range, they looked like your average competitor because they knew what they had to do. Everyone is different, whether it is level of skill, learning ability or whatever but I will admit that I appreciate having new shooters out on the range to see what they can do, and what they can learn. I plan on doing a lesson plan for BB graduates who want to take their training a step further, as there is no substitute for education and experience.
Personally, I really think that comparing what happens in this country to what happens in the U.S. makes no sense, given the hugely different political climate re guns. A bunch of people shooting themselves or each other in an IPSC match wouldn't rate an article in the U.S., and in Canada it could get the whole sport killed, depending on the circumstances.
This is exactly why anyone wanting to join hart house had to go through our safety course. Didn't make any difference who they were, where they came from, how experienced they were. And, in fact, the more experienced they were, the more they appreciated that everyone was treated like that. I found that people who were complaining the most, based on their existing past experience, were the ones we needed to put through the course and weed out the most.
No, other teams coming in for competitions didn't have to go through it, but anyone who wanted to join the club, and/or come in on regular basis, had to do it.
I have no problem with that approach. People who really object to taking the BB course, because "they don't need to" and refuse to see the point in us wanting to make sure for ourselves and our shooters and spectators that everyone has the same basis in safe handling and shooting, in my opinion, I can live without, in our sport.
This is exactly why anyone wanting to join hart house had to go through our safety course. Didn't make any difference who they were, where they came from, how experienced they were. And, in fact, the more experienced they were, the more they appreciated that everyone was treated like that. I found that people who were complaining the most, based on their existing past experience, were the ones we needed to put through the course and weed out the most.
No, other teams coming in for competitions didn't have to go through it, but anyone who wanted to join the club, and/or come in on regular basis, had to do it.
I have no problem with that approach. People who really object to taking the BB course, because "they don't need to" and refuse to see the point in us wanting to make sure for ourselves and our shooters and spectators that everyone has the same basis in safe handling and shooting, in my opinion, I can live without, in our sport.
Taking the BB program out of Canada would be the most stupid
thing we could do. It would be one of those WTF were we
thinking moments.
Just because so and so country doesn't have it we should get rid
of ours? We should be proud we have such a course and be
leaders not followers with backwards thinking towards safety.
As for Slavex's thoughts. Maybe an accellerated BB course possibly
for LE/Mil would be something to propose?
I'm fine with accepting members from other regions if they are current
with their region.
Out of towners, we just have to use our best judgment. How often
do we get them?
New shooters, I know our club tries to group the newbies up with
experienced shooters the first few matches. Touching and guidance
is sometimes used to prevent a DQ. What good is it to have a newbie
shooter DQ'd their first match? Correct and teach and make their first
match memorable and keep them coming back.
I've noticed in the last few years people are forgetting this is a HOBBY.
It's run by VOLUNTEERS so you need to be patient with scheduling ect.
Although I can feel Slavex's frustration trying to become a BB instructor.
Your people should be embracing you for wanting to contribute and
grow your region, not hinder you for their political self serving attitudes.
thing we could do. It would be one of those WTF were we
thinking moments.
Just because so and so country doesn't have it we should get rid
of ours?
We should be proud we have such a course and be leaders not followers with backwards thinking towards safety.
As for Slavex's thoughts. Maybe an accellerated BB course possibly
for LE/Mil would be something to propose?
I'm fine with accepting members from other regions if they are current
with their region.
Out of towners, we just have to use our best judgment. How often
do we get them?
New shooters, I know our club tries to group the newbies up with
experienced shooters the first few matches. Touching and guidance
is sometimes used to prevent a DQ. What good is it to have a newbie
shooter DQ'd their first match? Correct and teach and make their first
match memorable and keep them coming back.
I've noticed in the last few years people are forgetting this is a HOBBY.
It's run by VOLUNTEERS so you need to be patient with scheduling ect.
Although I can feel Slavex's frustration trying to become a BB instructor.
Your people should be embracing you for wanting to contribute and
grow your region, not hinder you for their political self serving attitudes.
As a new IPSC shooter i will chime in say that i found the bb course excellent. It's good training and instruction for the fee. As for the people that complain about cost? I had to fly to Vancouver get a hotel room and do the bb. Why? Because i want to shoot IPSC that much.
So for the folks that have to drive 1/2hr to a club that has the course,buck up!
I will agree though that a new shooter should be with a squad that will help them out.
I did my first qualifier in Terrace B.C. and was put on a squad that went out of their way to help me out. Going as far as to have another lefty open shooter on said squad.
I really appreciate the help i got.
All in all i think the bb is a great tool to have and require in Canada.
So for the folks that have to drive 1/2hr to a club that has the course,buck up!
I will agree though that a new shooter should be with a squad that will help them out.
I did my first qualifier in Terrace B.C. and was put on a squad that went out of their way to help me out. Going as far as to have another lefty open shooter on said squad.
I really appreciate the help i got.
All in all i think the bb is a great tool to have and require in Canada.
Hypothetical questions here......
Lets say, someone like Eric Grauffel immigrated to Canada.....would he be required to complete the Black Badge course.
How about someone that came from England, and only ever shot IPSC Shotgun, and did so for 10 years, would they be required to take the BB Course.
How about someone from the Philippines that has shot IPSC for 3 years, would they be required to qualify to shoot in Canada?
Who decides?
Lets say, someone like Eric Grauffel immigrated to Canada.....would he be required to complete the Black Badge course.
How about someone that came from England, and only ever shot IPSC Shotgun, and did so for 10 years, would they be required to take the BB Course.
How about someone from the Philippines that has shot IPSC for 3 years, would they be required to qualify to shoot in Canada?
Who decides?
I would say the rep for that area, the BB instructors would be willing to take that into account. We are not talking about taking a NEW TO THE SPORT OF IPSC shooter, we are talking about seasoned shooters in IPSC. I would imagine a letter of reference would be called for....but Eric Grauffel....? Now you are just getting silly.
**on another note, the pre-test is basic knowledge of the rules for participating in IPSC. It is an open book test for christ's sake....if you can not even come close to completing it you really should think about another sport.
Everyone coming to the BB course comes with different mind sets and skills. Some will need little work, and others need more. But when you complete the course, you will have demonstrated the basics.
Geez.....you are not implying that it is "NOT ONE RULE" for everybody?
And yes the Eric comment was meant to be silly, just because it IS silly, the rule I mean!
But it does beg the question, that if someone is more than welcome to come to Canada and shoot an IPSC match, it makes sense that they would not have to take the BB Course if they moved here. As such, if someone were to shoot IDPA for a great many years, and was given an IPSC Rule book to study, would they not also be given a pass? I mean they have the safety aspects down pat, it is just a matter of rules right?
And yes the Eric comment was meant to be silly, just because it IS silly, the rule I mean!
But it does beg the question, that if someone is more than welcome to come to Canada and shoot an IPSC match, it makes sense that they would not have to take the BB Course if they moved here. As such, if someone were to shoot IDPA for a great many years, and was given an IPSC Rule book to study, would they not also be given a pass? I mean they have the safety aspects down pat, it is just a matter of rules right?
I did not say that....
. ALthough those with more background in firearms usage than the average joe (ie: someone in LE or military possibly), may think they should not be required to take the course. They in fact want a rule for them, and then for everyone else.
Well, the rule does seem rather biased. I mean anyone from a different Region can come here and shoot, no matter their ability, or experience, as long as they are a member of a Region, but if they immigrate here they must take the BB course?
