Black Badge question

[Freedom Ventures]

Normally, I refuse to engage in discussion of IPSC Canada business here, but there are so many ridiculous and incorrect statements above, they desperately need to be corrected with the facts.

1. Other regions have no training program. Just the contrary, Most regions have training and certification programs. The US is only one region out of 60+. IPSC is developing a training course that very much mimics the Black Badge that all regions will soon have access to for world-wide consistency.

2. Anyone from another IPSC region can just compete in IPSC Canada competitions. No. They have to carry a recommendation from their Regional Director before they get in. Canadians have the same restrictions at IPSC matches anywhere else in the World. Match Directors may use their discretion when it comes to the Americans, as their region is so large that their RD has other things to do than deal with individual members. Match Directors in Canada ensure that Americans have a long history of safe competition before accepting them.

3. USPSA membership is IPSC Membership. Only if you live in the USA. See IPSC Rule 6.5.1

You may now go back to your regularly scheduled speculation.

 

[CeeZer]

Speculations usually start due to either lack of knowledge or experience. This has apparently just been proved.

What Freedom Vent. said above should have been said on first page of the thread.
Thank you for the insight!!

 

[Slavex]

Thanks Sean. You provided info I hadn't seen before. But I still think my original idea has merit.

 

[Freedom Ventures]

Happy to help. Info on IPSC Canada is only an email away, anytime... can@ipsc.org

 

[euxx]

Happy to help. Info on IPSC Canada is only an email away, anytime... can@ipsc.org

Sean, hypothetically speaking:

* What if Canadian resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then want to join IPSC? Does he have to take a BB course?

* What if US resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then moved to Canada. Does he have to take a BB course?

 

[maurice]

Sean, hypothetically speaking:

* What if Canadian resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then want to join IPSC? Does he have to take a BB course?

* What if US resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then moved to Canada. Does he have to take a BB course?

**see above, point # 2...I think that would cover it....although he would have to pay yearly dues like everyone else.

 

[euxx]

**see above, point # 2...I think that would cover it....although he would have to pay yearly dues like everyone else.

It is different. They couldn't compete as USPSA members in IPSC matches because they don't live in US. So, my question is basically about converting USPSA membership into IPSC membership.

BTW, being IPSC member, you don't have to be USPSA member in order to shoot USPSA matches. Though it is convenient to have USPSA membership, so you'll get qualification, etc.

 

[PeterPan]

Sean, hypothetically speaking:

* What if Canadian resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then want to join IPSC? Does he have to take a BB course?

QUOTE]

Read Rule 6.5
Shooting USPSA doesn't change anything, still need for BB and it may be entirely for SC or RD to make a call.

 

[euxx]

Sean, hypothetically speaking:

* What if Canadian resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then want to join IPSC? Does he have to take a BB course?

QUOTE]

Read Rule 6.5
Shooting USPSA doesn't change anything, still need for BB and it may be entirely for SC or RD to make a call.

Peter, I didn't know that we should call you Sean now.

 

[Freedom Ventures]

Sean, hypothetically speaking:

* What if Canadian resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then want to join IPSC? Does he have to take a BB course?

* What if US resident been shooting USPSA matches for several years and then moved to Canada. Does he have to take a BB course?

Straight answer - Yes and Yes. If some one's been doing it for several years, one weekend and a small fee to make some new friends shouldn't be much of of an inconvenience for something they supposedly want to do. If that's a show stopper for them after several years of shooting IPSC-like stuff, they have deeper issues we're not going to be able to fix.

Hypothetical is a difficult language, though. It's very easily misunderstood.

As for Military, LE, etc...skipping the course - you're kind of missing the point of the course. It's goal is to produce safe competitors for IPSC competition that will breeze safely through their first event and come back to play with us again afterwards. No one else teaches anything with the same goal. You have to hunt a while to find negative feedback from recent graduates of the BB; I've never met anyone that didn't get something out of it - and I've seen them all - CAF - all disciplines, PD, ERT, RCMP, DFO, DNR & even Mall Ninjas. Then of course there's the due diligence thing and the later chance of some reptile asking the question "So Mr. Defendant, why did the guy that just shot the other guy not have to take the same training everyone else did? Please answer so the whole court can hear."

 

[euxx]

Then of course there's the due diligence thing and the later chance of some reptile asking the question "So Mr. Defendant, why did the guy that just shot the other guy not have to take the same training everyone else did? Please answer so the whole court can hear."

That sums up my conclusions. Thanks, Sean.

It is weird to make people to do the training again, when they moved from another region, but I wanted a confirmation. I suppose they would have to accept that rules are the same for everyone.

 

[Lumpy]

That sums up my conclusions. Thanks, Sean.

It is weird to make people to do the training again, when they moved from another region, but I wanted a confirmation. I suppose they would have to accept that rules are the same for everyone.

Moving within Canada you would be fine. All other Canadian regions
will accept your BB credentials.

Moving to another country you gotta play by their rules.

I have my commercial helicopters license. If I want to fly somewhere
else in the world I have to do cross-over courses and exams to meet
their requirments. It sucks but it's what is required.

 

[Walter Hornby]

Why has not the rest of the world adopted this if it is such a good idea?
If you can shoot, shoot!
It seems to work everywhere else. USPSA and other IPSC regions do not need courses.

But then again what do I know.

A lot of the regions in the World do have something equivalent to the BB course. i know i have shared our course info with a few different countries. I have heard rumours about USPSA looking at adopting the BB course but as i said this is rumour only. i do know that a lot of USPSA clubs require anything from a 4 hour introduction course to a full two day course.

 

[Walter Hornby]

Hypothetical questions here......

Lets say, someone like Eric Grauffel immigrated to Canada.....would he be required to complete the Black Badge course.

How about someone that came from England, and only ever shot IPSC Shotgun, and did so for 10 years, would they be required to take the BB Course.

How about someone from the Philippines that has shot IPSC for 3 years, would they be required to qualify to shoot in Canada?

Who decides?

We had the equivalent in Alberta a few years ago. we had a fellow move up from the US for work. a couple of discrete inquirers told us that he was an active competitor and there were no concerns. we accepted that and he shot IPSC the whole time he was here. We is the BOD.

 

[JBD]

No disrespect intended for serving members and exserving members for our majesty the queen's forces, but when I was in the infantry. We qualified annually with our personal weapon by shooting on a firing line shooting from standing, kneeling, sitting and prone a various ranges. In my opinion this does not prepare anyone for the dynamic shooting environment of an IPSC to course of fire.

To me the black badge is primarily an ipsc shooting safety course and nobody should get a pass on safety. If doing the exam and shooting drills for a day is too big of inconvenience well take up bowling.

 

[Slavex]

see people keep missing the point of my original and consequent posts, I'm talking about people who have a known ability, known to the BB instructor, or someone else within IPSC who can vouch for them. Obviously this is too much for people to process though.

 

[Quigley]

see people keep missing the point of my original and consequent posts, I'm talking about people who have a known ability, known to the BB instructor, or someone else within IPSC who can vouch for them. Obviously this is too much for people to process though.

Um...no...you keep missing the point

IPSC Canada has a good safety record becuase of the training program...not because we have a bunch of members "vouching" for their buddies.

 

[pepsicola]

Um...no...you keep missing the point

IPSC Canada has a good safety record becuase of the training program...not because we have a bunch of members "vouching" for their buddies.

can you prove that ?? the USA and I expect MOST other countries have an equally impressive safety record and yet they do not require "black badge". as has been said many times by many people, the shooting sports is safer then driving to work.

 

[hungrybeagle]

Let's not go down the "cite me who has had more accidents" path.

What exactly is the issue with taking the BB course. Cost? Time? What is it that you're trying to work around? Most of the cost of the BB is taken up by the membership fee, isn't it?

Most of the time is usually spent in covering the rules. If the student demonstrates competence within the framework of the course, doesn't it mean that you can shorten the practical part of the course?

I fail to see what is it that you're asking for that isn't reasonably covered by the whole BB course to begin with.

 

[MrFritz]

I am not a Black Badge Instructor and I don't play one on TV, so take the following for what it is worth.

Ultimately when a BBI certifies that a candidate is ready to compete in an actual match he is stating that the candidate has demonstrated the appropriate level of proficiency in the skills that are required of BB candidates. This includes demonstration of a knowledge of the rules, demonstration of safe gun handling skills, and demonstration of an ability to shoot under some time pressure. As I recall there are specific time standards for various specific exercises.

I may be mistaken but I don't think that there is any requirement for a particular number of course hours that must be attended or rounds fired or anything like that. You pass the course when you can demonstrate the required proficiency. Assuming that this is correct, all any experienced shooter needs to so is find a BBI who is willing to conduct the appropriate testing and sign-off on the fact that the shooter has the skills without the necessity of a class per-se.

Now this entire enterprise is run by volunteers so finding a BBI who is willing to do this may not be a simple task, but it may, at least in theory, be a solution to some of the concerns expressed here. An experienced shooter moving to Canada does not need to take the Black Badge course, but they do need to pass the Black Badge test.