Black Guns, Industry and Ethics.

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KevinB

KevinB

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So I just found out about the NEA Shilling today.

I was in Texas near Laredo for the last week hunting with folks. Most where gun Industry. Chris and Amanda Barrett, Ronnie Barrett's kids for those who did not know. Also one of the owners of CMMG and his girlfriend (who shot a big rattler and won the snake competition). 'Dr' Drake Clarke from Magpul, Marty and his crew from Badger Ordnance, Kel from GemTech, and a bunch of others - About 60 folks in all.

We had a great time, everyone was cool with each other.

At the time I though damn, we have a great industry, we compete, but it's fair open and honest.

I work for KAC, I'm pretty clear about it, and every website has my contact info in the sig line.

The idea that a company would make a shill
Account speaks volumes to me about their integrity, and their product.

I generally do not take shots at folks in Industry, but NEA's actions sicken me.

As soon as you cross the line on integrity it's a slippery slope, next stop is where?

Do your homework as a gun buying public, and vote with your wallets
 
At this point I really do not know what anyone could do to make people happy. I don't think anyone seriously wants NEA or CGN to shut off its operations (but I wouldn't be surprised if some did)

In my opinion, if NEA took greater care in the release of their first batches of products, none of this would have happened. The guy with the disgusting BCG would have received a correct gun. None of the people with unstaked BCG and loose gas block would have received that and the other odd isssue would have been worked out before having to repair what has been sent to the customer. They would not have had to defend their product so often.

Meanwhile they did uncover that many other dealers were doing the same thing (which as of still we have no material proof). However most of the dealers here are only sales people, so I do not see how they can shill. Unless I am mistaken we only have a 4 or 5 manufacturers registered as dealers and if all of them were shilling then I'll be damned.
 
Lemons go out. Anything done by humans is going to have some issues eventually. It's how the company deals with the lemons that makes you in the industry.

The only other manufacturers here IIRC, are Dlask and ATR.
Even if they both shilled it does not make NEA right.

Frankly two wrongs don't make a right (even at a four way stop you'd need 3 wrongs silly folks). I'm pissed as I though ever since the ARMS fiasco on AR15.com that folks knew you can fool some of the folks some of the time... It's a stupid business practice even if you have no integrity, and it paints those of us in industry with their slime covered brush.
 
KevinB said:
Do your homework as a gun buying public, and vote with your wallets
Click to expand...

I did. And I smile as the empty casings fly from the ejection port of my NEA. Enough, already. Where is that smilie with the dead horse being whipped? Also, what was the ARMS fiasco on AR15.com?
 
Edited to reword a section

KevinB, How can you post this when your very own KAC distributor was posting about how great KAC products are from a personal account a month ago and replying to that person with a dealer account? While not exactly the same, it is the same slippery slope.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715592

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

556NATO said:
Well I picked up my Knights Armament SR-15 from One Shot Tactical the Canadian Exclusive dealer for Knights. All I can say is F**K Yeah!!!! This rifle rocks. :rockOn:

Let me show you my KAC
Click to expand...


Farmboy said:
The SR-15's are freakin hot.

Glad you like it :D

These ones are headed out this week.
Click to expand...


As I'm sure you know 556Nato is the part owner of your Canadian KAC importer. Further down the thread the other owner posts how great the guns are....isn't that what NEA did???

I wasn't going to ever go down this route but what you said was pretty nasty and directly effects my business. You are a very respected person on this board, by myself and many others and what you say carries alot of weight for many people on here.

KevinB said:
So I just found out about the NEA Shilling today.

I was in Texas near Laredo for the last week hunting with folks. Most where gun Industry. Chris and Amanda Barrett, Ronnie Barrett's kids for those who did not know. Also one of the owners of CMMG and his girlfriend (who shot a big rattler and won the snake competition). 'Dr' Drake Clarke from Magpul, Marty and his crew from Badger Ordnance, Kel from GemTech, and a bunch of others - About 60 folks in all.

We had a great time, everyone was cool with each other.

At the time I though damn, we have a great industry, we compete, but it's fair open and honest.

I work for KAC, I'm pretty clear about it, and every website has my contact info in the sig line.

The idea that a company would make a shill
Account speaks volumes to me about their integrity, and their product.

I generally do not take shots at folks in Industry, but NEA's actions sicken me.

As soon as you cross the line on integrity it's a slippery slope, next stop is where?

Do your homework as a gun buying public, and vote with your wallets
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
KevinB said:
Lemons go out. Anything done by humans is going to have some issues eventually. It's how the company deals with the lemons that makes you in the industry.
Click to expand...

Sent you an email last week about my SR15 regarding the gas block. I am awaiting your reply. Show me how you deal with lemons (not that the gun is a lemon but there are problems none the less)
 
Chemist said:
KevinB, How can you post this when your very own KAC distributor was posting about how great KAC products are from a personal account a month ago? Is that any different?

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715592

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I'm sure you know 556Nato is the part owner of your Canadian KAC importer. Further down the thread the other owner posts how great the guns are....isn't that what NEA did???

I wasn't going to ever go down this route but what you said was pretty nasty and directly effects my business. You are a very respected person on this board, by myself and many others and what you say carries alot of weight for many people on here.
Click to expand...

I fail to see what you are describing compares to what NEA was caught red handed in doing. NEA had fake accounts specifically setup to shill.
 
Edited to reword a point:

So you are saying it is OK for the part owner to post about how great thier product is with a personal account and then have the other owner reply with his dealer account...if so then I must be in the wrong. To me it is very similar...pumping up your product with one account, replying with the other....similar as what NEA did if the account was fake or not.

As well remember dealers aren't allowed to start post outside of thier forum or the EE to advertise products. We are only allowed to reply to a thread that has already started.



Leibermuster said:
I fail to see what you are describing compares to what NEA was caught red handed in doing. NEA had fake accounts specifically setup to shill.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
KevinB said:
Lemons go out. Anything done by humans is going to have some issues eventually. It's how the company deals with the lemons that makes you in the industry.
Click to expand...

lemon would be an understatement on the POS they returned to the customer after they had supposedly serviced the BCG.

and yes...this is what NEA returned as "fixed"
69919164.jpg

a51178ab.jpg
 
Chemist said:
KevinB, How can you post this when your very own KAC distributor was posting about how great KAC products are from a personal account a month ago? Is that any different?

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715592

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I'm sure you know 556Nato is the part owner of your Canadian KAC importer. Further down the thread the other owner posts how great the guns are....isn't that what NEA did???

I wasn't going to ever go down this route but what you said was pretty nasty and directly effects my business. You are a very respected person on this board, by myself and many others and what you say carries alot of weight for many people on here.
Click to expand...

That's the major difference though. The connection is known (or at least not hidden) and they didn't say anything misleading about the product. Plus, this was on their regular personal account, not an account specifically set up to shill. I do understand what you're getting at, but I think you're defining it too broadly.
 
Chemist said:
So you are saying it is OK for the part owner to post about how great thier product is with a personal account and then have the other owner reply with his dealer account...is so then I must be in the wrong. To me it is no different...pumping up your product with one account, replying with the other....same as what NEA did if the account was fake or not.
Click to expand...

It is no secret on this board that 556Nato lives in Kingston and is with OST...

That being said it should be made more clear..

But to compare that one instance of an active member posting his rifle he purchased to shilling like NEA is completely ridiculous.

Also they sell rifles to OST they are not directly schilling with KAC employees..

556Nato should have the OST banner showing though...

All this will be discussed I imagine when Greentips chooses, I'm sure he will make some kind of public announcement in light of how the unnamed person reveled all this to us and NEA admitted to it.


Wow pbr streetgang

That is just brutal on NEA part..
 
Leibermuster said:
I fail to see what you are describing compares to what NEA was caught red handed in doing. NEA had fake accounts specifically setup to shill.
Click to expand...

While not "exactly" the same circumstance as NEA's, I have to say it is on the same slippery slope in my mind. Seems a little offside to pull the scab off NEAs wound in light of what Ryan pointed out. Until now, I just assumed Nato556 was just your average CGNer happily gushing about his new rifle; never occurred to me he might have a significant stake in that very same.
 
Chemist said:
So you are saying it is OK for the part owner to post about how great thier product is with a personal account and then have the other owner reply with his dealer account...if so then I must be in the wrong. To me it is no different...pumping up your product with one account, replying with the other....same as what NEA did if the account was fake or not.

As well remember dealers aren't allowed to start post outside of thier forum or the EE to advertise products. We are only allowed to reply to a thread that has already started.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, that might be a reasonable complaint.
 
With the size of our firearms industry up here, a little shilling was mostly expected. You could see it coming a mile away what with all the teaser posts, videos and pre-hype.

Not defending it, just not surprised by it.
I'm torn. We need more manufacturers up here and some of the actions of US manufacturers are a tad worse i.e: Sabre, Robinson Arms @ SHOT etc...
Why so much greasyness??
 
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