Bush Survival guns?

^Yes you can buy sub caliber inserts. But from the shell size ones, don't expect to win a prize or take a rabbit cleanly at close range, at even 50% of your shots taken for the table IMO.

Edit: Have you ever noticed the expensive European sub caliber inserts for hinge action shotguns? They often have a barrel about the length of a normal pistol barrel and often have some kind of means of adjusting the POI.
 
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Brutus said:
^Yes you can buy sub caliber inserts. But from the shell size ones, don't expect to win a prize or take a rabbit cleanly at close range, at even 50% of your shots taken for the table IMO.
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Yes inserts are less accurate. For the rabbit I recommend 12ga birdshot...
 
The short lane's work pretty good for me. I'll try and shoot some groups on paper at different ranges but from my use so far with a basic bead sight I'm impressed.

With the .22lr adapters you need to play around with the orientation if you can't adjust your sights (bead) but once you find the orientation that works best with your bead and mark the adapter so you can repeat the orientation it works. The newer models with o rings and finger grooved extration are nice. Heavy and somewhat prone to rust are the only real negatives.

I've got the short 3inch and the longer 8 inch and the accuracy is similar. Unfortunatley ShortLane doesn't ship anymore to Canada but for some reason you can still get their shorter "pathfinder" kit through the Pathfinder guy's website.
It was a good value at around $100Cdn when I bought it last year, not sure on current prices for the three adapters (.22lr.9mm and .410/.45Colt)
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Looks like the Pathfinder store has extended the range of Short Lane stuff on offer.... besides the weight of the all steel adapters and their lack of rust proofing (some sort of gun coat spray coating would be a good idea!) they are well made.
http://www.selfrelianceoutfitters.com/shotgun-adaptors/?sort=pricedesc
 
Brutus said:
You are doing very well Can-down!

Cheers.....
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Brutus, that's not me shooting :)
The finger groove and O ring are a huge leap forward as far as making it enjoyable and quick shooting with the adapters. It's also easier to leave the adapter in the best orientation.
 
Gatehouse said:
I carried shotguns for years, as well as a few other rifles.

I'm pretty settled now on my Trapper 16" Mdl94 in 45 Colt, with 300gr XTP at 1600FPS for hunting and bears, and some light load cast bullets loaded with Trailboss for small game. Using cast and jacketed makes it easy to keep them separate.
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This is more my style.

Pick you favorite large caliber pistol cartridge, get a handy rifle that shoots it, and load some heavy/powerful loads for close range big game and some light loads for the stew pot. I've got rifles in .45 colt and .454, and my brother has one in .44 mag and they all fill the bill.
 
H4831 said:
Boomer has made a good outline of survival, I would just like to fill in a few spots. His words of, " an adventure or a misadventure," is a good way to describe a week in the northern wilderness.
When survival comes up all that modern people can talk about is a gun, particularly a gun that will blow apart wild animals they envision as bent on eating you up. Since weight is always a major consideration and if one had to choose between taking a gun or an axe, I would take the axe every time! And no, I didn't dream this up, I got it from the old time trappers and prospectors who spent all their time in the wilderness, whom I once knew. Actually, these men were very efficient, and their packs would always have both an axe and a rifle in them, but invariably, the rifle was a small, single shot 22 and they would start out with two boxes of 22 shorts in their pack. Their packs may vary a bit, from one individual to another, but every single one would have an axe in his pack.
Getting something to eat is only part of survival. One can live for multiple days, or a week or so, without serious harm if they never had a bite to eat. But you can easily perish and die in one night, from hypothermia.
Lets say it is late fall and you are out in a rain, got soaking wet and you can't get back to your camp. After dark the sky clears and temperatures drops to below freezing. If you can't get warm and dry, you will perish over night.
The one tool that can keep you alive is a sharp axe, even the ones that are about 2/3 size, with about a 2.5 pound head and a handle about 30 inches long, because it is absolutely imperative that you get a fire going, so you can warm up and get your clothes dried.
If you are in the position I state, soaking wet, it is cold and you are not going to be able to get to your camp, it is also imperative that you stop before dark and prepare for the night. But that's a different story that we won't go into.
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While I agree that hypothermia is an immediate emergency, whereas hunger doesn't need to be addressed for some time, that doesn't mean that food doesn't enter the equation. Knowing you have the ability to feed yourself is better for your state of mind, than being unable to, and not knowing when help might appear, particularly after a few days have elapsed. They say burning wood is the most efficient form of heat because it warms you up twice, once when you cut it, and again when you burn it, but without food, your desire to collect and cut firewood diminishes, and your general mental and physical condition deteriorates quickly. In the fall, nights are long and hours of daylight short, so when its light out you have to keep busy collecting enough wood for the evening. When its cold at night, that supply of firewood is consumed in an incredibly short period of time, particularity if you are in the subarctic's "land of little sticks". The reality is that moving very far means getting wet in this country what with wet tundra and string bogs and floating grass; it doesn't need to be raining or snowing, for you to get wet, although it might be. In the summer there is another problem, and a smokey fire is necessary to keep the bugs at bay so you don't go insane, they always seem to be worse at sunset or just after a light rain. Walking is difficult, so collecting sufficient wood requires effort, which can only be fueled by food. Smacking that fat goose 200 yards distant precludes the difficulties associated with hunger, and knowing you can repeat that exercise on demand keeps despair at bay.
 
I have a 20" barreled LSI Puma M92 in 454 Casull I shot from 200gr 45 Colt to 405gr WLNGC's 454 Casulls in it and I just recently purchased a box of 50 535gr bullets to try in it.

I call it my 45-70 light.
 
Boomer seems to make a valid point trying to harvest skittish and stationary edible creatures at a distance that would really test any rifle and shooter that is chambered merely in 22 LR. A rifle in 22 WMR or a 22 Hornet could be the bee's knees on a really rough and sparse hunting day??
I would also like to point out that one should not forget about flying creatures. A scattergun (small or large) may make a difference between eating meat or just merely surviving off moss/lichen or at the very best berries.

maybe
 
If it came down to a rifle only, I suggest the 22 Hornet could keep you well fed without testing your ability to travel on foot, with an adequate supply of ammunition.
A better option might be a combination gun in 22 Hornet/410 or 20 gauge, with the 22 WMR as a close second with the prementioned shotgun bores.
And with some kind of improvised sleeve/adaptor one could also feed the rifle 22 LR. An impossibility with any 17 rimfire cartridge.
 
Boomer said:
While I agree that hypothermia is an immediate emergency, whereas hunger doesn't need to be addressed for some time, that doesn't mean that food doesn't enter the equation. Knowing you have the ability to feed yourself is better for your state of mind, than being unable to, and not knowing when help might appear, particularly after a few days have elapsed. They say burning wood is the most efficient form of heat because it warms you up twice, once when you cut it, and again when you burn it, but without food, your desire to collect and cut firewood diminishes, and your general mental and physical condition deteriorates quickly. In the fall, nights are long and hours of daylight short, so when its light out you have to keep busy collecting enough wood for the evening. When its cold at night, that supply of firewood is consumed in an incredibly short period of time, particularity if you are in the subarctic's "land of little sticks". The reality is that moving very far means getting wet in this country what with wet tundra and string bogs and floating grass; it doesn't need to be raining or snowing, for you to get wet, although it might be. In the summer there is another problem, and a smokey fire is necessary to keep the bugs at bay so you don't go insane, they always seem to be worse at sunset or just after a light rain. Walking is difficult, so collecting sufficient wood requires effort, which can only be fueled by food. Smacking that fat goose 200 yards distant precludes the difficulties associated with hunger, and knowing you can repeat that exercise on demand keeps despair at bay.
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I was trying to get across that food for the next day wouldn't be important, if you died over night, an event that would likely happen under the circumstances I described, if a fire could not be had and that food was only a part of survival.
In the boreal forest of BC and much of all northern Canada, long distance shooting wouldn't be needed, as squirrels, rabbits, ground squirrels, willow grouse, etc, are short range shooting and a 22 with shorts is ideal.
 
Chiappa double badger, 410 and .22 wmr double barrel and folds down to fit in a backpack. The go for around $400-$500 great firearms for survival. Also chiappa makes a little badger it comes in .22lr and .22 wmr and .17 hmr it is the smallest pact rifle I have seen and folds up. It's very accurate and weighs around 2 lbs I don't even notice it in my pack
 
Seeing that this is not a end of the world situation and merely a outing with the intention of returning to home my selection would be a 12ga with some slugs and some shot. My reasoning would be if i leave a spot and hike in for 3 days id assume it would be 3 days back out. Yes S$#@ can happen and you could get lost of loose you provisions but a 12ga with slugs would protect you or harvest large game and shot can be used for small game on food on the fly. This would feed you and protect you for an extended stay while you where found or hiked back out.
If i was leaving my house for the last time into the unknown for a unknown time frame id take a .22lr for the simple fact of i can carry 500 rounds in the same space of 25 12ga

Of course everyone's opinion differ and no one can predict the future but based on the OP situation id take the 12ga
 
I would suggest a Savage model 24 Over and under. You can still find them with 30-30 over 12 gauge and other centre fire calibers over 20 gauge. My Dad still has his 22lr over 410. Prefect for what you are looking for.

Huntdon.
 
I just bought a Greener GP Martini 12ga and plan on shortening the barrel to about 26inches and putting an express rear sight and ramp front sight on it.That way I can use it with slugs and shot plus the turn off barrel allows it to be packed easier if needed.
 
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