New cocking handle
Wow... Somehow, I'm thinking that getting your gun caught on your clothes under fire = bad news.
C7A2 have arrived at our unit
- Thread starter mt84
- Start date
Wow... Somehow, I'm thinking that getting your gun caught on your clothes under fire = bad news.
We just returned our A2s to the vault and drew A1s for the final field component here in BMQ. Aside from weight (the A1 seems a lot lighter, more tahn just the scope, but it could be a perception thing) and other obvious differences like collapsible butt and upper reciever mount, the differences seem negligible. I will say however that all our A2s had the old cocking handle, and I didn't hear any lefties complain. That new one looks like an abortion. And on most rifles there was a holder in the pistol grip for a cleaning kit.
Being a lefty, I didn't complain about the cocking handle until I got a hold of the A2. Now being able to grab the latch so easily and saving so much time and effort in drills I seem to have become spoiled and want nothing to do with the old latch.
The elongated part on the left can be sawed off for all I care, the only part lefties use is the thin part that wraps around the back of the handle and projects a bit to the right.
The elongated part on the left can be sawed off for all I care, the only part lefties use is the thin part that wraps around the back of the handle and projects a bit to the right.
That cocking handle thing and the crap tri-rail are a complete waste of money by the small arms LCMM. That cocking handle is a back digger and that tri rail is a POS. Are there that many left handed shooters to justify this cost. You should have your choice at the company QM level where you sign for your guns. But that would let the overly zealous control that the LCMM has one the CF small arms. It's ridiculous and mired in cold war thinking.
But then again, what do I know. I was just the user.
Regards
CS45
But then again, what do I know. I was just the user.
Regards
CS45
Works great for hanging your rifle off the front of your tac vest if you don't have a sling... other than that I have no use for it.
I fully agree that the tri rail is garbage and a waste of time and funds. I'd much rather replace the Elcan (C79).
I fully agree that the tri rail is garbage and a waste of time and funds. I'd much rather replace the Elcan (C79).
Well since I am getting the feeling that this thread has a negative vibe regarding the A2:
Some things I like:
I get tighter groups on PWT 1-3 than with my A1
The collapsable butt-stock is awesome for Gunfighter when wearing your plates in the carrier.
The ambi-charging handle makes GF drills easier and faster.
The vertical grip (if provided) is also a plus during GF drills.
Shortening the rifle makes it easier to get in and out of vehicles and carriers (although I would rather have my C8)
Some things I don't like:
The ambi-charging handle getting caught on EVERYTHING
THe ambi-safety switch has a tendency to get caught on EVERYTHING and change from SAFE-R-FIRE at will.
The ambi-mag release is engaged if you have the rifle close to your body making your mag fall out and yourself combat ineffective
So really the only problem is all the abbi stuff which the CF in all its infinite wisdom decided to put on. They should have allowed for the user to choose which side the charging handle/safety switch/mag release would be placed. Taylor the rifle to the user not the user to the rifle. If they can take the time to do it with the new ruck sacks, why not take the time to do it with individual users rifles. They are assigned to us after all.
That is for storing extra batteries for optics, not cleaning kits. We just strapped the kits to our vests like we did with the new bayo.
Some things I like:
I get tighter groups on PWT 1-3 than with my A1
The collapsable butt-stock is awesome for Gunfighter when wearing your plates in the carrier.
The ambi-charging handle makes GF drills easier and faster.
The vertical grip (if provided) is also a plus during GF drills.
Shortening the rifle makes it easier to get in and out of vehicles and carriers (although I would rather have my C8)
Some things I don't like:
The ambi-charging handle getting caught on EVERYTHING
THe ambi-safety switch has a tendency to get caught on EVERYTHING and change from SAFE-R-FIRE at will.
The ambi-mag release is engaged if you have the rifle close to your body making your mag fall out and yourself combat ineffective
So really the only problem is all the abbi stuff which the CF in all its infinite wisdom decided to put on. They should have allowed for the user to choose which side the charging handle/safety switch/mag release would be placed. Taylor the rifle to the user not the user to the rifle. If they can take the time to do it with the new ruck sacks, why not take the time to do it with individual users rifles. They are assigned to us after all.
That is for storing extra batteries for optics, not cleaning kits. We just strapped the kits to our vests like we did with the new bayo.
It should not have an ambi cocking handle. If you #### the weapon properly, you should use an overhand grasp with index and middle fingers...it won't matter what hand you use. Yes you can unlock the handle from the right side but it is improper. You should always #### the gun from the top....everytime...not from the left or right.....why...from the top you get the gun cocked 100% of the time...from the left/right there is a chance that your hand will slip off it or when under stress you will have an easier/quicker time graping the handle with both fingers than the side of it.
Some have used it to make drills faster but the first time you #### the gun and the cocking handle lock flies off you will see the flaw.
The extended cocking handle lock was made in the first place to allow a firer with arctic mitts on to #### the gun easier anyway.
Comments from a lefty
I'm not in the CF anymore, but I was in with the original C7. I am a lefty and I always managed to handle that rifle very well. The controls were easy to use. I had to make some adjustments to the "official" drills but it was ok.
That new charging handle, although I have not used it personally, looks over-complicated and prone to catch everywhere. It might be a solution to a "non-problem" form someone behind a desk. Lefties are used to getting by and I have never considered the original C7 a problem to deal with. Just a theory.
Nic
I'm not in the CF anymore, but I was in with the original C7. I am a lefty and I always managed to handle that rifle very well. The controls were easy to use. I had to make some adjustments to the "official" drills but it was ok.
That new charging handle, although I have not used it personally, looks over-complicated and prone to catch everywhere. It might be a solution to a "non-problem" form someone behind a desk. Lefties are used to getting by and I have never considered the original C7 a problem to deal with. Just a theory.
Nic
Warstock?...we still carry them...lol
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
We're doing a brisk trade in charging handles as the A2s roll out. No joke. Can't keep them in stock. Selling by section quantities. 
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Wow, and all I wanted was a NSN.
Yup, you asked for a stock number and a clutch of grumpy, crusty old warhorses stuck their heads out of the mess to complain!
I don't know which is worse, troops complaining when the issue kit is inadequate or when the issue kit offends their sense of style?FWIW, I think the C7A2 is a step ahead, especially compared to the C7. Sure the tri-block front whatever is unnecessary, but I like everything else about it.
(If it feels heavier, that is the change in centre of gravity further forward ...
)The A2 IS THE SAME RIFLE!!!! They are just refurbished A1s with furniture changes. Yes everyone got screwed by that cocking handle (I was personally told by the people at the top "we won't buy that one" about the cocking handle we now have), but the sling loop is easily reversible by a tech so it's not an issue.
The "proper" drills for grabbing the cocking handle with two fingers are inadequate, and there is currently a battle in most places about when to use "gunfighter" vs "the old standard" weapons drills.
The reason extractor springs fail is that people don't do adequate maintenance. The new springs are supposed to be fixed to the bolt, but when they get full of crud because everyone just "wipes it down" after 2 weeks in the field or days of live firing, the spring ends up pulling off and then no longer seats properly. That was true of the modded A1s as well. I don't mean that it needs tons of maintenance but if you go ahead and put 20 mags through the thing, take an extra 30 seconds to take off the extractor and wipe that down too. It takes a while but eventually without cleaning it ends up a mess.
The triad rail is crap, no arguement. BUT for every 10 people that complain about the butt not being good or the triad being crap, or the C79A2 (which is improved) being junk- I can usually only find 1 on the range who actually knows how to properly zero the sight, has made sure the rail is secure, and even has a clue how to start zeroing the PAQ4 laser. (just a hint, if you ever line it up with your iron or optical sight's point of aim, you are totally wrong)
Yes there are neat things we could have instead, but you could also have an AK and web gear and solid green combats. Things are much better than they used to be, and most people don't get nearly enough time on the range to genuinely get proficient with their issued weapons. Proficient enough that fancy kit would really make a noticeable difference in their performance.
Now the insight m3x plastic garbage tactical light they issued instead of surefires, that genuinely IS worthless.
The "proper" drills for grabbing the cocking handle with two fingers are inadequate, and there is currently a battle in most places about when to use "gunfighter" vs "the old standard" weapons drills.
The reason extractor springs fail is that people don't do adequate maintenance. The new springs are supposed to be fixed to the bolt, but when they get full of crud because everyone just "wipes it down" after 2 weeks in the field or days of live firing, the spring ends up pulling off and then no longer seats properly. That was true of the modded A1s as well. I don't mean that it needs tons of maintenance but if you go ahead and put 20 mags through the thing, take an extra 30 seconds to take off the extractor and wipe that down too. It takes a while but eventually without cleaning it ends up a mess.
The triad rail is crap, no arguement. BUT for every 10 people that complain about the butt not being good or the triad being crap, or the C79A2 (which is improved) being junk- I can usually only find 1 on the range who actually knows how to properly zero the sight, has made sure the rail is secure, and even has a clue how to start zeroing the PAQ4 laser. (just a hint, if you ever line it up with your iron or optical sight's point of aim, you are totally wrong)
Yes there are neat things we could have instead, but you could also have an AK and web gear and solid green combats. Things are much better than they used to be, and most people don't get nearly enough time on the range to genuinely get proficient with their issued weapons. Proficient enough that fancy kit would really make a noticeable difference in their performance.
Now the insight m3x plastic garbage tactical light they issued instead of surefires, that genuinely IS worthless.
